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TonyB06

11-09-2004 11:03 AM

Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
One thing I stopped doing in voting for an elected official is stop seeing where they stand on Black issues and rather see where they stand on Christian issues.

Are you suggesting that Black issues and Christian issues are mutually exclusive?

Rain Man

11-09-2004 11:30 AM

Re: Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyB06
Are you suggesting that Black issues and Christian issues are mutually exclusive?

No, but simply put:

Black issues are often merely symptoms of Christian issues (or lack thereof). So rather than treat the symptoms (Black issues), I seek the cure the root causes (Christian issues). Ephesians 6:12 says it all.

Hope this helps

Love_Spell_6

11-09-2004 11:56 AM

Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
I would like to say for the record, I voted for Bush.

Actually, I didn't plan to vote for either Bush or Kerry, most likely some independant candidate (Nader was taken off the Ohio ballot). But my decision was prompted at the 11th hour to vote for Bush, and I'm darn glad I did.

What it came down to between voting for Bush or for Kerry was whether one thought that jobs and the economy was of a higher priority (Kerry), or that moral values and terrorism was of such (Bush). For me, I felt that moral values was rapidly declining, and IMHO, Bush with his Christian values would maintain and/or bring back morality to the USA.

One thing I stopped doing in voting for an elected official is stop seeing where they stand on Black issues and rather see where they stand on Christian issues. And I can tell you as far as Ohio goes, that is what prompted Ohioans to give Bush the electoral votes for that state. While all the urban areas (Cinci, C-Town, and Columbus) was straight Kerry territory (save perhaps the suburban and outskirts areas), the rest of the state was predominately Bush country. Drive down I-70 or I-71 and look at the political banners adorning the countryside. Nothing but "Bush-Cheney '04" as far as the eye can see. Ohio is clearly a conservative Christian state.

In the November 4 issue of "The Other Paper", the story hit the key reason why Bush won Ohio dead center: Ohioans didn't vote for policies or promises; they voted for Bush, the man, not Bush, the politician. Ohioans saw something in Bush they could relate to, and they voted for him based on that.

Finally, for all those who plan on defecting to Canada, and prophesying the apocalypse, let me just say that IMHO Bush is going to turn this country around in such a radical way that folk won't believe that this is the same Bush who led the country in what is believed by many to be an dismal state of disarray.

The next four years is predicted to be the most critical four years in America's history. Bush needs your prayers, not your criticism. For those who want to leave for Canada, we'll miss you, but don't expect a warm welcome should you ever want to return to the USA when times "improve".

Amen Amen Amen!!!!!!!

Dionysus

11-09-2004 12:38 PM

Good lawd! Is there ONE black person that isn't completely blinded by the promise to focus black issues (in which I think are usually empty promises) or appeals to religion when it comes to politics??? Damn, I don't see anything wrong with having passion for those, but I strongly believe that neither party gives a damn about black issues. Same with religion, I don't believe that either party is any more moral than the other. Both have serious flaws when it comes to morality, it just shows up in different ways. I just don't see how these two issues can dictate on how one votes.

Steeltrap

11-09-2004 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StrangeFruit
Why do Republicans like to ask black american democrats, "What has the Democratic party done for you?"

I ask what has either party done for black americans? Every black american is not going to have a small business, every black american is not interested in visiting museums (said to have been built in DC under the Bush administration). However, every black american needs a good education and from what teachers have shared with me children are being left behind.

When broken down children that attend schools that aren't meeting the requirements loose out on funding, while the schools that are average or above average receive additional funds. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure teachers on the board know first-hand (and hopefully I was given correct info, if not, please accept my apologies).

I registered as an independent b/c I feel that both parties (Republican and Democrat) need to reevaluate.

I also find is very ironic and hilarious that the word "morals" keep coming up. The word morals needs to be defined b/c apparently Bush (and his supporters) have a different definition or a very narrow view of what morals entail.

I'm also an independent. Neither party really appeals to me at this point in time, as a pro-business moderate person.

ladygreek

11-09-2004 01:12 PM

Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
I would like to say for the record, I voted for Bush.

Finally, for all those who plan on defecting to Canada, and prophesying the apocalypse, let me just say that IMHO Bush is going to turn this country around in such a radical way that folk won't believe that this is the same Bush who led the country in what is believed by many to be an dismal state of disarray.

The next four years is predicted to be the most critical four years in America's history. Bush needs your prayers, not your criticism. For those who want to leave for Canada, we'll miss you, but don't expect a warm welcome should you ever want to return to the USA when times "improve".

Are you really taking the talk of "Canadian defections" seriously?

Rain Man

11-09-2004 01:15 PM

Re: Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by ladygreek
Are you really taking the talk of "Canadian defections" seriously?

Let's just say the Vietnam War draft dodgers did.

Kimmie1913

11-09-2004 03:25 PM

Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man

What it came down to between voting for Bush or for Kerry was whether one thought that jobs and the economy was of a higher priority (Kerry), or that moral values and terrorism was of such (Bush). For me, I felt that moral values was rapidly declining, and IMHO, Bush with his Christian values would maintain and/or bring back morality to the USA.

And exactly how is he going to do this?

StrangeFruit

11-09-2004 04:38 PM

What plans do Bush have to "turn this country around"? And is this event to be one that will benefit all American citizens of all races, faiths, etc?

How can a professed christian be against abortion, but for the death penalty?

How can a professed christian support a war against people that have done nothing to warrant such war?

Can someone please define morals to me because mine doesn't mirror Bush's definition. I don't perceive Bush to me this upstanding moral individual. Someone please enlighten me.

allsmiles_22

11-09-2004 04:58 PM

Re: Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
Bush with his Christian values would maintain and/or bring back morality to the USA.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmie1913
And exactly how is he going to do this?

Every person I've asked couldn't answer. Bush banning gay marriages in an effort to maintain or bring back morality doesn't stop homosexuals from dating, sexing, or having kids. They will still exist among us and their kids still attend the same schools your kids attend. But it doesn't matter because at least in some way shape or form you've looked to the government to be your/our "savior".

It's quite easy to see why many "Christians" voted for Bush. We've got priests molesting boys who are still accepted in the church. We've got pastors embezzling money, sleeping with church members while the whole congregation knows, or endorsing stars like the Pied Piper of R& B who lures girls with his magical flute talking about You Saved Me and So Sexy. Moral leaders are quickly given the forgiveness card.

I'm glad Bush won. I want every soldier and innocent who died in this sham war to be on this Christian's tab when his day comes. I have faith knowing he'll get what he deserves for trying to play God. It would be a shame if those who followed this false prophet also bore some of the blame, but oh well that’s what you get for following the devil.

Rain Man

11-09-2004 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StrangeFruit
What plans do Bush have to "turn this country around"? And is this event to be one that will benefit all American citizens of all races, faiths, etc?

How can a professed christian be against abortion, but for the death penalty?

How can a professed christian support a war against people that have done nothing to warrant such war?

Can someone please define morals to me because mine doesn't mirror Bush's definition. I don't perceive Bush to me this upstanding moral individual. Someone please enlighten me.

As the shepherd (read: leader) of this nation, comes a sense of insight and foresight.

The shepherd can see further than the sheep can.

Granted, you may not see the plight of our nation the same way Bush can, but I trust indeed that he does have a strong positive vision for America. Naive? Perhaps. But compared to the apocalyptic "doom and gloom" predictions I have been hearing, it is by far the lesser of two evils.

Love_Spell_6

11-09-2004 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
As the shepherd (read: leader) of this nation, comes a sense of insight and foresight.

The shepherd can see further than the sheep can.

Granted, you may not see the plight of our nation the same way Bush can, but I trust indeed that he does have a strong positive vision for America. Naive? Perhaps. But compared to the apocalyptic "doom and gloom" predictions I have been hearing, it is by far the lesser of two evils.

Stand your ground bro. ;)

Rain Man

11-09-2004 06:56 PM

Re: Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmie1913
And exactly how is he going to do this?

Through our prayers for him, not our criticism.

Then, wait and see.

ladygreek

11-09-2004 10:36 PM

Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
Let's just say the Vietnam War draft dodgers did.

So you are referring to when the draft is reinstated, not folx leaving just because Bush won?

Well just like I applauded the conscientious objectors who went to Canada during Vietnam, I will applaud those who go when the draft is reinstated. And welcome them when they return. After all by definition a conscientious objector is one who objects to war on moral or religious principles. So they went to Canada to avoid jail. Nothing wrong with that, imho.

BTW, are you military? If not do you plan to enlist?

Nubian

11-09-2004 11:08 PM

Re: My 73 cents

Quote:

Originally posted by Rain Man
For me, I felt that moral values was rapidly declining, and IMHO, Bush with his Christian values would maintain and/or bring back morality to the USA.

One thing I stopped doing in voting for an elected official is stop seeing where they stand on Black issues and rather see where they stand on Christian issues. And I can tell you as far as Ohio goes, that is what prompted Ohioans to give Bush the electoral votes for that state. While all the urban areas (Cinci, C-Town, and Columbus) was straight Kerry territory (save perhaps the suburban and outskirts areas), the rest of the state was predominately Bush country. Drive down I-70 or I-71 and look at the political banners adorning the countryside. Nothing but "Bush-Cheney '04" as far as the eye can see. Ohio is clearly a conservative Christian state.

I think the whole idea that any politician represents moral values is flawed. No one should look to government, especially politicians, for moral guidance. Morality is an individual issue. It (IMHO) should be shaped by upbringing and experiences, not some politician dictating to an entire country what he thinks is right and wrong. IMHO its irresponsible to think that George Bush's percieved "morality" will save this country. Morality doesn't win needless wars, morality doesn't create jobs, morality doesn't balance the budget; intelligence and proper planning accomplish these things and "Dubya" is quite lacking in both areas.

But back to my original point, a politician shouldn't dictate how individuals live their lives. Would I ever want an abortion? NO. Would I ever want to marry another woman? NO. Do I need George Bush to tell me this? Nope! But hey that's just my .02 cents...take it or leave it.

What is the world coming to when an entire country looks to a former drunken cokehead for moral guidance?

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