Without this turning into a huge law debate, TRUST ME when I say I am sure about this.

You are right in the respect that IF someone said, 'this crime was commited against me, and I would like to file a complaint' then there would be a violation of the law. With ANY Misdemeanor in the state of California, the offense MUST be commited within the presence of the arresting party.

This means that say the police respond to ANY misdemeanor and it hasn't been committed in their presence, then the victim must sign the arresting complaint and THEY will be the complaintant in the judicial matter. If the police witness something, say you going 100MPH in a 55, then they are the complaintant, representing the city.. however if they only have reasonable suspicion to believe you committed the misdemeanor (it is much different for a felony) then because it is only a misdemeanor they need a victim as the arresting party.

You can lookup case law and the state law (the education code is JUST as enforceable as the penal code) but I 100% guarentee you I am right.

As for hazing.. not only would it be a tough sell in court that there was degredation of the pledges being that they CONTINUED the pledging process for days/weeks/months after the hazing event, but THEY themselves would have to say they were victimized.

Trust me I know a little bit about this. ;)
Casey

Sorry there Casey buddy but you are in the wrong. Just cause they continued pledging does not make it not hazing. Tell that to the Sigma Chi's, the D-Chi's, and the Kappa Sigs on my campus. They have all been kicked off due to hazing violations, where most of the pledges went on to become actives. And if the school rules that it is hazing it doens't matter if they all felt victimized or not. Often times it is a report from someone who felt hazed that gets the ball rolling but that isn't always the case. Sometimes suspicious behaviors get an investigation started.

GeekyPenguin

I never said anything about paddling someone every day. That is pointless and has no real meaning. The point of doing things in pledging should be to teach lessons and have meaning. Alot of the things we do are things that could be considered hazing but because we have meaning and real lessons behind it, they arent. I didnt see anything pointless about DOC's stuff because the pledges needed a wake up call.

I'm sorry, not to be rude, but I'm not going to trust some random person on the internet, who may or may not be the person from FL2. Especially when it comes to the law. I posted the statute because you talked about it, it's only fair to the discussion that the rest of people be able to read it. I also would never trust anyone who would do those kinds of things to people that are supposed to be their friends and brothers. Sorry, that's juts me.

You guys are just damn lucky that none of your pledges (or ex pledges) has sued you. None of you seem to be forward-looking enough to see how a lawsuit could affect you. And the fact that it's all caught on tape doesn't really help your case either. There's hours upon hours of footage that hasn't even aired and could easily be subpoenaed from MTV.

It doesn't matter that penal code is different from criminal code... I wasn't quite sure what you meant by that. I never said one was more enforceable than the other. Criminal code is enforced by the police and the District Atty's office would bring suit. With other laws, someone personally would have to bring suit. That's all that I originally meant by that. And it's not like the group as a whole could be sued, you'd all be individually sued. I'm guessing that DOC isn't operating in a business form, therefore you don't have any of the individual protections that something such as a corporation would have. Hard to explain quickly, but it affects who can be found liable and who can't.

And yes, it's rather convenient for you guys that you got kicked of campus. But that sure as hell doesn't seem like something to be proud of.

Look, you're not going to find many people on this site that agree with you. A few, yes. But the rest of us are disgusted at how you are representing greeks. And it affects all of us as greeks having to deal with these images and convince potential greeks and everyone else that our respective chapters are nothing like yours.

You're not going to convince us that what you're doing is right, because it goes against the very values and ideals that our respective GLOs have taught us.

I just watched the re-run shows tonight. The scavenger hunt, in my opinion, isn't bad. That isn't an exhuasting exercise and it is easy to see if you work together you can bond.

The beach, though - what the heck is that? Jumping up and down and doing push ups on the beach isn't going to be fun because you are doing it with your brothers. And then riding behind them making them hurry to the house? This is bonding?

Bonding would be letting them take their time walking back from the beach together and talk about whatever. When you go and shout at them and make them run and not talk - they don't learn anything about eachother (well maybe besides who can run the fastest).

That beach crap was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. I wouldn't respect anyone who yelled and screamed at me and made me exhaust my body so I could be a good pledge. I can understand making pledges go through things together to bond - but there is a line where it goes beyond bonding and to just flat out being an asshole.

agreed...and from a management standpoint, if you have a pledge totally off task do you not talk to the kid before you let him drop. from what we saw, it's obvious that there was enough going in his head that perhaps he needed some asssitance.
just mho

Robbie is really the star of this show
 

Robbie is really the star of this show. I hope he makes it.

And I think he could add about 30 pounds.

A little tension, too, about the underwear theft. There are bad brothers, and bad pledges too.

Good episode - makes the SL look weak.

Nate's pretty cute! Although I didn't think the underware thing was that big of a deal, it wasn't necessary... I liked the fact that Lum put his foot down though for the pledges' sake.

I like FL 2. I'm quite entertained. I haven't seen them do anything to these pledges that makes me feel like the pledges should sue DOC. Hazing that's much worse goes on behind fraternity doors on basically every campus around the nation. What's happening here seems minor to me, and they can always quit if they don't like it. Granted, seeing some hazing on tv may be hard for some people to deal with, but we all know it goes on. It goes on to a much higher degree at many fraternities. I would much rather deal with what these pledges are going through than all the gossip, backstabbing and emotional turmoil that the pledges in SL 3 are going through. That seems like much worse hazing to me.

Just because it is not as bad as other chapters out there does not make hazing right.

EXACTLY!!! saying a little hazing isnt as bad as other hazing...thats like saying well this boy beat up this other kid, but didnt demolish him...so id rather be just SIMPLY beat up? what the????

its a lot easier to say you wouldnt mind being in one persons shoes...until you ACTUALLY fill them. i doubt you would last one second if you were TRULY in that position. i know personally, i just wanna say THANK GOODNESS Delta Gamma has a ZERO tolerance for hazing ;)

Can someone please explain to me why it is so terrible to call someone a "duck"? Ducks are cute and cuddly. Who doesn't love a duck?

I love ducks! LOL. :)

I think the "duck" referance is an unfriendly nickname for another fraternity. That whole thing pissed me off. When an active tells you to do something and you have been getting into trouble for not following orders, you finally do what you are told and then you get yelled at. Arg, "Fraternity Life 2: What not to do as a Fraternity"

Tell it Dani. ;)