Whew! I have to admit complete astonishment that anyone could say that either of these rules are hazing. Even under the NPC standards, neither of these things could possibly be considered hazing. The NPC says:

Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity.

Nothing there about anything that separates a new member from a sister (or brother). Pledges (new members, porbationary members, candidates, whatever you want to call them) are different from initiated sisters/brothers. For one thing, they don't know what the letters or other symbols mean. For another, they haven't taken the oath(s) that bind fully-initiated brothers or sisters. And at least in most fraternities I know anything about, the chapter can decide not to initiate them. If they can't wear the badge (and I assume that this is the case in any GLO -- except those that have done away with pledging altogether), they why can't they be prohibited from wearing letters?

Sorry, but to say that it is hazing to prohibit anyone who has not been fully initiated from wearing letters is, in my opinion, way lame.

In our chapter New Members wear letters just as much as the initiated sisters do. All of our tshirts for various events have letters on them, and we were given lavalieres on bid day. We were even given 2 shirts on bid day that had letters on them. It has never been a problem for a new member to wear letters as much as the sisters do, we are just not allowed to have anything with the crest on it, a rule which all of us new members follow. Hope I answered your question :)

In our chapter New Members wear letters just as much as the initiated sisters do. All of our tshirts for various events have letters on them, and we were given lavalieres on bid day. We were even given 2 shirts on bid day that had letters on them. It has never been a problem for a new member to wear letters as much as the sisters do, we are just not allowed to have anything with the crest on it, a rule which all of us new members follow. Hope I answered your question :)

In Alpha Sigma Phi, pledges may wear clothing with the three Greek letters, but are prohibited from wearing or displaying anything with the coat of arms until they are initiated.

To be technically correct, the crest is the device above the shield in a coat of arms. Just setting the record straight.

Is this only happening to me???
 

I haven't read this thread in a few days, but I have seen it has taken a turn & now we're talking about letters before initation.

Just wondering - Is anyone else here getting pm's from this Iconocloastic person, or am I just special?!

Re: Is this only happening to me???
 

Par for the course... it doesn't take long before a thread will change direction and talk about something else.

Luckily, I haven't been getting any garbage from this guy... knock on wood! Ain't gonna rise up to take his flame-bait.

cardinalsm~it's interesting to hear how your chapter does all of the different stuff on bid day. in our chapter new members may not wear lavalieres! that and the stitched letters are more of something that the little's earn throughout the pledge learning process.

Re: Is this only happening to me???
 

If his pms are offending you, forward them to John Hammell so he'll get banned again.

No offense-but that really sounds like a foerm of hazing and is in my opinion ridiculous. youhave EVERY right as a new member as an initiated sister (that's why they aren't called pledges anymore...) except you can't see the ritual or wear the crest. EVERYONE-and I mean EVERYONE at my school (we have Chi-O and about 15 others)gets t-shirts and lavaliers and other stuff-cups, notebooks, checkbook covers, stationary-with their new member basket on bid day. What do you give people on bid day?

It may be true that the NPC my not consider it hazing, but every GLO has different rules about what may be considered hazing. For example my chapter considers it hazing to require phis (new members) to do anything that the initiated members do not have to do. we also don't exclude phis from anything besides ritual and other business for chapter members only. that means that they can wear letters, go to all functuins save ritual, and so forth.

Phi Sigma Sigma's policy is the same for their new members as Phi Mus. Phi Sigs new members actually attend our regular meetings but are excluded from the ritual portion of meetings. They can wear letters as stated in our Reflections Manual (new member manual) from the day they are pinned. We can't require a new member to do anything that collegians aren't required to do. New Members just aren't allowed to see ritual and wear the crest is pretty much it.

For our chapter its been decided that Sapphire Sisters give their new Sapphire Sisters initiation gifts of lavalieres and lettered sweatshirts. But if the new member wants to buy and wear them before initiation there is nothing stopping her.

Personally I like it that New Members can and do want to wear our letters right away. It shows they're proud they are new members and they'll only be prouder sisters once they're initiated and understand what the letters mean.

Carolyn