I will say that chapters who are on the larger side are, to an extent, made fun of/ostracized because they are bigger. My chapter, for example, takes large PCs and we're fine with that. However, people will say that 'we take anybody.' You can't get houses to change size without changing that culture

Exactly. The only way this will work is if q/t is implemented by the IU administration going over Panhel's head, and if national groups follow through and promise to yank the charters of anyone who doesn't comply.

And if that happens...honestly? I wouldn't be surprised if a local sorority culture sprung up. Maybe I am just talking out of my hat, but for a campus who has clung to this method as long as they have, it seems the logical next step if that method's yanked away.

That wasn't a dig on TPA. That was a dig on the university, if they were silly enough to think that Greek membership ever works that way. From what I've read about them in this and other threads, yes, they are silly enough.

I think you are correct to some extent here. The Third Street chapters are landlocked and cannot expand. They are smaller, hold fewer women, and have an easy time making quotas of 30-40 each year. The niece of a friend is in a Third Street chapter and she told us that the term "Third Street Elite" is bantered about quite often. From what I remember the chapter houses on the extension hold more women. DZ looks huge, as do ADPi and AOPi, from the outside. If i remember correctly, only 7 chapters allow live outs and each chapter gets to make that decision. If 3 or 4 more chapters allowed live out options for seniors, then at least 100 more women could be placed. I can't image why chapters wouldn't want to have at least 45-50 in each pledge class making each chapter closer to 150 first semester and 200 second semester. If girls are allowed to live out, they have more money coming in: dues, parlor fees, more alumnae to make donations, etc. I don't think a pledge class of at least 50 is too large to deter bonding.

I guess I just am frustrated watching so many quality women who want to be in the Greek system being denied membership on such a large scale.

After reading all the information on IU's bed quota policy on NPC's blog all I can say is WOW! I'm shocked and concerned about all the negative impact this single large university will/might have on young women who are interested in going Greek not only at IU but other large universities. I am surprised that the National organizations have not stepped in and mandated that IU uses RFM or some other method to place women. It just seems logical to me that if you have 1,600-2000 women go through and there is 20 chapters and they are all taking +-50 you are not going to place all of these girls. The cross cutting must be tremendous for a young women to attend 3 preference parties and go bidless. As a Mom I would be VERY cautious to send my daughter into a situation with those kinds of odds.

The national organizations, as we say time and again, are at the university solely at the university's invitation. Their house = their rules. If the university doesn't feel the need to mandate RFM, Q/T or anything else, the sororities can't make them do so. The only way the sororities can register protest is to pull the charters of their IU chapters, or require the IU chapter to be at a total of 150 or whatever - and if the situation is as IUHoosiergirl88 says, that would only result in "Don't join XYZ. Their national makes them take extra girls for extra money. They take anyone."

I'm confused. Why does the university care?

From my graduate studies, there is quite a bit of evidence out there that shows Greek students contribute more as alumni than non-Greek students do. My classmates who work in development all know this. I would guess that like other public universities, IU wants to increase alumni giving. By expanding the greek system, the donations should increase in a few years. Also, I know that the Greek Life office at IU takes a PR hit every year after recruitment. I would also hazard a guess that they might be a little tired of fielding the calls from special snowflakes and their mothers. Yes, they do get phone calls from mothers.

I believe the university has come to rely on the Greek system as a de facto source for a large chunk of its campus housing.

Well, if that's true (and it could be) then why aren't they selling the empty lots to the new sororities? That would truly add more housing, but they aren't budging.

If the comments on that NPC blog are any indication, that doesn't surprise me at all. I understand they are upset, but thinking that investigative shows like Dateline would be interested in how their snowflakes didn't get a bid is delusional.

I'd be curious to know how many of the unplaced PNMs who had "perfect" recruitment experiences until being cross cut after preference ranked the Jordan and unhoused chapters low enough to drop them in the earlier rounds.

One other thing too. All the complaints about not knowing the odds at IU. Is IU really that secretive about the placement rate or are these girls simply in denial and don't think it could possibly happen to them?

Sorry, I meant, "why would the university do something to prevent a quota/total system?" If the NPC groups wanted that, why would the U resist?

Because colleges are political machines and not always rational? :D

Yes, yes, and yes. :)

I almost made your middle point earlier tonight, but I didn't know how to make it not sound abrasive or negative. Each year, I know at least two or three girls going through recruitment at IU. Last year, all three of them ranked the "popular" chapters at the top. One of them got 14 back and got most of her top 14. Number 2 got 12 and was not pleased to return to a few of them. The third was the hardest hit, she only got 8 back and she had better stats "on paper" than the other two. She had more high school activities, leadership positions, lettered in multiple sports, etc. She was extremely upset, I spent over an hour on the phone with her. It's pretty easy for me to talk with them objectively since SK isn't there.

Number one ended up going to two prefs and did NOT get a bid. She transferred at end of the year. Number two fell in love with one of those "less popular" chapters at 8 party, went to pref at that chapter and another, SIPed and happily got a bid! She's a great fit and loves her chapter dearly. Number three dropped after 8 when she only had two lesser popular chapters left. She was offered a COB bid from one of her chapters at 14 party, but she had already signed an apartment lease and didn't want to break it. She did not go through again this year, nor is she interested in joining one of the unhoused chapters. No girl thinks these sort of things are going to happen to them, if they all did, no one one would sign up for recruitment.

This year, the girls I know had perfect rushes until pref and they did drop those "lesser popular" chapters after 20 party. I think one of them truly regrets it and hopes one of them calls her for COB, if there is any. IU chapters COB on the sly, for some reason COB has a stigma attached to it.

I realized that blog was posted in January of 2011, and I didn't read every single post thoroughly, perhaps I am just cynical, but with the qualities and credentials shared by these moms, maybe some went without bids because they limited themselves to particular chapters and when it came down to ranking on both sides, it didn't work out. Am I right in thinking that to go without a bid at Indiana a woman starts out on the second bid list and isn't ranked high enough to move to the first list if women on the first list match elsewhere first? To add a dose of reality, and math, tell the PNMs the bed quota for each chapter where they attended preference, and how many women attended preference. At a place where there are no quota additions, so therefore getting a bid from any one of the chapters she ranked, knowing ABC can take 37 and XYZ 24 may jump start a woman's acceptance of not being an XYZ, or receiving any bid.

The NPC blog is the same stuff we hear from moms and their daughters at other schools when they don't get the results they want. I did laugh that there was a cry to "alert the media" for an expose. The complete lack of understanding isn't surprising either, but is par for the course for many of the parents of the college students of today. There will always be "more spots than PNMs" because not every PNM is going to be issued invitations, or accept her invitations. The situation is just more pronounced at Indiana as each chapter sets their own quota.I didn't notice any mention of Alpha Delta Pi doing informal recruitment or of the Theta Phi Alpha colonization in the comments. I did notice a lot of demands for other chapters to take more members, but none about these two as something to look into or join. I know it is mutual selection, but all these PNMs had resumes posted that would lead one to believe they had desirable qualities on paper, so I'm wondering if some moms have no idea their daughter has personality issues, or if they think they are too good for these groups?

Lastly, Indiana will not be hurt by people not sending their daughters because of a bed quota. I'm pretty sure enrollment is not going to be hurt when someone is moved off the waiting list and gets to enroll.