So my grandparents who are natural born American citizens have to worry about being considered illegal because they don't speak English? If fluency in the English language was required, then I can see it being used as probable cause. But it is not. If using "they don't speak English" is sufficient as probable cause, then it is providing different levels or justice to different populations.

ETA:
Well yes that is true. But that if you pulled over a car for some reason. That does not equal thinking somebody might be illegal and stopping them asking for proof of citizenship, which a lot of people don't even carry with them on a day to day basis.

I really don't feel sorry for anyone who lives here and doesn't speak the language. Sorry. That's a choice, and if you choose that, sometimes it sucks to be you.

The officer would have to have a reason to pull over the car first, e.g., speeding, then he would have to obtain probable cause to investigate citizenship, not just because he saw some brown folks in a car.

Kids....just remember a Hispanic man who was robbed of his things who can't speak Ingrish is probably an illegal!!! ;-)

I'm at a lost for words.

Yes I even said as much. It's not the same as saying "I suspect he might be illegal, let me ask him for proof of citizenship"

No ID and no English? Yeah, that'd probably be enough.

Personal opinions are whatever but they don't have to translate to the law. That's the gist of this discussion. Many laws have moral, religious, and opinion-based foundations and it's okay to critique those foundations and how these laws are applied.

I have an issue with people who live here and do not speak at least basic English. I feel the same way about Americans who move overseas for years or to live permanently. I don't know if that's a citizenship/immigration issue. Either way, a lot of Americans who move overseas find English speaking communities and resources rather than really learning the foreign language in order to have a full foreign language conversation. That's the same thing that many ESL people do in America.

Ha ha...GC and herpes. They go hand in hand! (GC is medical abbreviation for Gonorrhea.) Max is the gift that keeps on giving when you really want him to stop.:(

well that's what's required per HB2162. you can only ask for proof of legal residency while enforcing another law.

i feel no pity for folks who choose not to learn the language, either.

can't =/= won't

WHY!!! It is their choice. You think that punishing them for making one you don't agree with is the right thing to do?

hence i don't feel pity for them. they obviously feel it's not important to be able to communicate with those around them.

Well, I guess the bridge(kid) is over. ;)

Everyone forgets that a true democracy protects the minority from the majority and doesn't just equal majority rules. :rolleyes:

English, especially American English, is one of the hardest languages to learn. Ever wonder why we're forced to take 13+ years of it in school? Add in the fact that some people don't have the ability or the discipline to learn a second language, let alone a difficult one. Hell, most people that took all 13+ years of it can't speak or write it properly.