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THANK you!!! If you had evidence that could convince a jury that something occurred then what is the hold up?

*not familiar with legal procedures*

Did anyone see the 60 minutes interview? Homegirl was interesting.....

This case has more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese

The noose continues to tighten around the victim's neck. She is in the gallows. Will the governor (read: DA) grant her a pardon or will she be hung by her own rope?

The DA needs to make a move, and soon.

I am kinda turned on the lax team and think they are hot lol.

So complex, yet so simple

I think (perhaps it aired already) that there is an interview with the three suspects coming up and a black lady? i don't know if she's the victim or someone speaking for her? did anyone see this or know when it will air. It makes no sense, rape is still not taken as a serious crime, race should not even be an issue, what the heck does that have to do with a violent crime. regardless of race it seems rape is just very hard to prove under the law.

It is very difficult to prove sometimes. It sucks that some people have been reckless in alleging rape, and have cast doubt on other claims. Hopefully we'll find out soon if this is one of those cases or not.

My voice of dissent about the case eloquently stated

I stumbled across this article that expresses how I feel about this case in such a way that I couldn't better explain it myself:

Quote:

Duke Rape Case All Too Common

Jim Kouri, CPP

December 18, 2006
In another twist in an already questionable criminal case, DNA testing in the infamous Duke lacrosse rape case found no genetic material from any of the accused males on the woman's body or on her clothing, but analysts found DNA from several unknown male on the accuser's body.

This finding directly contradicts reports that she did not engage in sex with anyone prior to or following her encounter with the three Duke students.

Prosecutors reportedly ordered the DNA testing after the state crime lab failed to find a conclusive match between the 27-year-old woman and any member of the Duke lacrosse team.

The most recent lab findings contradict earlier reports in which the accuser denied engaging in any sexual activity in the days before the alleged assault. The woman, who was hired as a stripper at a Duke lacrosse party in March, claims she was gang-raped by three team members in a bathroom.

The horror faced by three Duke University students is disturbingly common -- too common. But in the name of political correctness, few dare to question the validity of the rape charges for fear of becoming targeted by feminists and left-wing groups.

One brave man who dared to question the validity of rape complaints, and in fact searched for studies that gauged the number of false rape and sexual assault complaints, is Frank Zepezauer, who conducted research for the Institute for Psychological Therapies. In a paper for the IPT, Zepezauer shocked many when he delved into different studies on the subject of false rape complaints. He discovered, contrary to what's disseminated by the mainstream news media and feminist groups, that false sex crimes complaints are far from being rare.

One study Zepezauer looked at was conducted by the US Air Force Special Studies Division's Charles McDowell.

McDowell and his team of investigators studied 556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape. That left 300 authenticated cases of which 220 were judged to be truthful and 80, or 27%, were judged as false.

In his report Charles McDowell stated that extra rigor was applied to the investigation of potentially false allegations. To be considered false one or more of the following criteria had to be met: the victim unequivocally admitted to the false allegation, indicated deception in a polygraph test, and provided a plausible recantation. Even by these strict standards, slightly more than one out of four rape charges were judged to be false, Zepesauer wrote in his IPT paper.

In another study, McDowell and his team recruited independent reviewers who were given 25 criteria derived from the profiles of the women who openly admitted making a false allegation. If all three reviewers agreed that the rape allegation was false, it was then listed by that description.

The result: 60% of the accusations were identified as false. McDowell also took his study outside the military by examining police files from a major midwestern city and a southwestern city. He found again that 60% of the claims of rape were false.

In another study Zepezauer looked at, this one by Behavioral Scientist Eugene Kanin, he reported on his findings at two large Midwestern state universities which covered a three-year period ending in 1988. The finding of the combined studies was that among a total of 64 reported rapes exactly 50% were false.

Kanin found these results significant because the women in the main report tended to gather in the lower socioeconomic levels, thus raising questions about correlations of false allegation with income and educational status. After checking figures gathered from university police departments, he therefore reported that "quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge."

In addition, Kanin cited still another source which supported findings of high frequency false allegations in the universities. On the basis of these studies, Kanin felt it reasonable to conclude that false rape accusations are more common than previously believed.

But feminists and left-wing activists will dismiss these studies as biased because men where involved. For instance, one feminist, Wendy Kaminer, stated that "it is a primary article of faith among many feminists that women don't lie about rape, ever; they lack the dishonesty gene." Anyone believing women lack a dishonesty gene never dated women. If they do lack that gene, then someone out there is performing miraculous surgery to implant that gene. What's so amazing about such statements is: they are not based on any scientific evidence -- it is a sexist premise.

John O'Sullivan, a left-wing social scientist, discovered a widespread defense of the belief that "no woman would fabricate a rape charge. Feminists themselves admit as much."

Law Professor and left-wing political activist Susan Estrich stated that "the whole effort at reforming rape laws has been an attack on the premise that women who bring complaints are suspect."

Zepezauer wrote that, "Some feminists believe that even defending that premise [of false rape complaints] is in itself a sex crime."

Well-known Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz once said that he was accused of sexual harassment by female students for discussing in class the mere possibility of false rape allegations.

Zepezauer concludes his indepth study with this: "Believing the self-proclaimed victim of sexual misconduct has thus evolved from ideological conviction to legal doctrine and, in some jurisdictions, into law. California now requires that jurors be explicitly told that a rape conviction can be based on the accuser's testimony alone, without corroboration. Canada is proposing that a man accused of rape must demonstrate that he received the willing consent of a sexual partner."

The studies cited by Frank Zepezauer correlate with this writer's experiences working on sex crimes case in New York. I found that about half of the cases were false complaints and, in fact, during intense interviewing, the women sometimes freely admitted and rationalized the bogus complaints.

The current case of the Duke University Three, who are facing rape charges based solely on the word of an intoxicated stripper and prostitute, is a perfect example of the dynamic of politics and political correctness outweighing justice.

This is an unjust situation we face within our justice system. False charges of rape hurt women who are indeed victims of predators, and they hurt men, such as the Duke lacrosse players who have had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend themselves against a woman who will pay little if anything for her deception.

Jim Kouri, CPP is fifth vice-president of the National Association of Chiefs of Police and served in law enforcement for over 25 years. He writes for many police magazines such as Police Times. He's appeared as on-air commentator for over 100 TV and radio news and talk shows including Oprah, McLaughlin Report, CNN Headline News, MTV, Fox News, etc. His book Assume The Position is available at Amazon.Com. His website is located at http://jimkouri.us

Link to article here

I was just thinking about this case last night. Pitiful.

Ya'll know she's pregnant right?

:eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikki1920 (Post 1373790)

Ya'll know she's pregnant right?

Yeah, the defense is demanding a paternity test and believes that none of the Duke team is the father.

Ridiculous, lets those kids go, or show your hand.

Now I haven't been keeping up with this case in a while, but I am lost....at first they had genetic/DNA evidence that linked some of the players to the "crime scene" and now not only is there none (or it doesn't match) but she is preggers? :confused:

Feel's like I'm playing the game "Scene It"

Well she was there with the players, so there could conceivably be some DNA. However the er..."bodily fluids" tested were not a match for any of the players. Thus the defense thinks the paternity test will completely exonerate the team.

This case makes me so mad because all of the publicity and sympathy and attention could have been going to someone who was really raped and it became this whole poor vs. rich/black vs. white thing. While it isn't clear that she wasn't raped yet, that's where I'm anticipating this whole thing going. If it's fake, she should be prosecuted.

RAPE CHARGES DROPPED!!!!

A major victory for the men's rights activists, as the rape charges have been officially dropped (and the "victim" was hung by her own rope, just as I had originally predicted).

*Rain Man erupts in cheers and applause*

Shame on you, Crystal Gail Mangum for attempting to imprison three innocent men by your lies.

Quote:

Rape charges dropped in Duke case By AARON BEARD, Associated Press Writer
11 minutes ago

DURHAM, N.C. - Prosecutors dropped rape charges Friday against three Duke University lacrosse players accused of attacking a stripper at a team party, but the three still face kidnapping and sexual offense charges, a defense attorney said.

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Joseph Cheshire and attorneys for the other players have said for months the woman told several different versions of the alleged assault.

Cheshire said Friday that the accuser now says she does not know if she was penetrated, which he said led District Attorney Mike Nifong to dismiss the rape charges.

Nifong did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

The accuser, a 28-year-old student at North Carolina Central University, has said three men raped her in a bathroom at a March 13 team party where she was hired to perform as a stripper.

The players — Dave Evans, Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann — all say they are innocent. Their attorneys have consistently said no sex occurred at the party and have cited a lack of DNA evidence in the case as proof of their clients' innocence.

"It's highly coincidental," Cheshire said, that the charges are being dropped a week after the director of a private DNA testing lab acknowledged that he initially, with Nifong's knowledge, withheld from the defense test results showing none of the players' DNA was found on or in the accuser's body.

Testing also showed that genetic material from several males was found in her undergarments and body.

Link to article can be found here

Duke D.A. Charged With Ethics Violations

Ethics Charges Against Duke Lacrosse Prosecutor Could Force Him Off Case, Legal Experts Say

By AARON BEARD

RALEIGH, N.C. Dec 29, 2006 (AP)— Ethics charges filed against the prosecutor at the center of the Duke lacrosse sexual assault case might constitute a conflict of interest that forces him off the case, legal experts said.

"It's hard for me to imagine how he can be effective as an advocate, with either the court or a future jury, when he has ethics charges pending against him … concerning his conduct of this very same case," said Joseph Kennedy, a University of North Carolina law professor.

The North Carolina bar filed the ethics charges Thursday, accusing District Attorney Mike Nifong of violating four rules of professional conduct by making misleading and inflammatory comments about the athletes under suspicion.

Read The Rest Here

Duke Lacrosse Accuser Gives Birth

Posted: Today at 10:40 a.m.
Updated: Today at 1:21 p.m.
Chapel Hill — WRAL has confirmed that the accuser in the Duke lacrosse case gave birth at UNC Hospitals on Wednesday.

Sources tell WRAL the woman had the baby by Cesarean section. She was not due until February.

The 28-year-old alleges she was attacked by three Duke University lacrosse players -- David Evans, 20, Collin Finnerty, 20, and Reade Seligmann, 20 -- at a March 13 team party.

A judge has ordered a paternity test although prosecutors and defense attorneys have said the child was not fathered by any of the players.

In December, rape charges against the three men were dropped. They still face kidnapping and sexual offense charges.

At the time of the alleged incident, the woman, a divorced mother of two, had worked for an escort service to help support her children and to pay for classes at North Carolina Central University.

Wow. I have NO words for her. Trifling comes to mind, though. *smh*

WOW.

They announced on the news yesterday that two out of the three players have been invited back to Duke and are allowed to re-join the lacrosse team if they want to. So far, it's not known if they're going to take Duke up on the offer or not.

Accuser changes story

New version comes from Dec. 21 interview

JOSEPH NEFF

Judge orders paternity test in Duke lacrosse case

In her latest statement to investigators, the accuser in the Duke lacrosse rape case changed her account again about when the alleged gang rape occurred, who attacked her and how.

Defense attorneys filed the statement in court today, arguing that it was more evidence that the woman is an unreliable witness.

The woman adjusted the timing of the assault to earlier in the evening, a time point preceding the well-documented alibi of one accused player, Reade Seligmann. The defense, however, introduced yet more alibi evidence for Seligmann: he was on the cell phone with his girlfriend during the height of the attack as the accuser now times it.

The new version of the events comes from a Dec. 21 interview by Linwood Wilson, chief investigator for Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong. The statement marked the first time anyone from the District Attorney's office discussed the case with the woman since charges were filed in April. The interview came less than a week after a private laboratory director testified that he and Nifong agreed not to report DNA evidence favorable to the three accused players.

Read more here: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/16436360.htm

Ok, through all of this yuck-muck, I just have one question....why did she do this? There was no financial incentive there. And its not like she was an "average jane" that willingly participated in something (ex. consentual group sex) that she would later be embarassed about so she makes up a story of rape. I really wonder why she would do this?:confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974 (Post 1382039)

Well, it was as I was originally saying quite some time back, now this is only a guess and all....just a guess....I'm reaching here....what's the term called again....uhhh....

ATTENTION WHORE?

You think that might have something to do with it?

This keeps getting better. Thank you so much for making it harder for sexual assault victims to have their stories believed......binch...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...-accuser_x.htm

(I reaaaly wanted to say the other word... but, she aint worth it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 1382143)

I don't think this is the reason at all, given her occupation and the KNOWN scrutiny and judgements that it brings.

Maybe her baby's daddy is a team member and he didn't want to publically acknowlege that he (in T Pain's voice) "was in love with a stripper"... so this was her wat to get back at him..or them..or whoever.

I don't know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974 (Post 1382188)

That seems like a reach. I think the most likely scenario is that she was in someway demeaned and decided to get back at them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1382301)

That seems like a reach. I think the most likely scenario is that she was in someway demeaned and decided to get back at them.

Oh, no doubt that was a total reach to not be taken seriously. :p

I just don't understand what her motives were, especially now. Oh well, maybe one day the truth will come out.

If I had to predict what happened...she got there, they were very demeaning to her, perhaps some said prejudicial things and were upset with the prospect of a black stripper, and she decided to make the claim. Of course, maybe she doesn't have a conscience and decided to do this regardless of the conduct or identity of her accusers. Or perhaps something really happened, but it seems increasingly unlikely.

i can see it going down as shinerblock describes above. this is a shame all around.

not that my school pride is at all more important than justice or whatever... but it makes me sad that some people who have never heard of before NCCU this incident will now just remember us as the school where "that girl" went.

Still, that is true. However, despite efforts by some to refer to her as a student, most people still think of her primarily as a stripper. I don't think it'll stick for that long.

For 15+ pages, you posters condemned the lacrosse team, and the accused players, ignoring all of the evidence and comments from defendents, their team mates, their families, and their lawyers.

Not one bit of incriminating DNA was found, although semen from five others was found on the girl and on her panties - proving her statement "no sex for a week" to be a lie. Not one piece of evidence has been presented, except the ever-changing story of the girl.

I wonder if any of the 15 pages of accusers will now offer an apology, or maybe an "I was mis-informed"?

It's now being reported on all the news outlets here in NC that Mike Nifong has asked Roy Cooper (Nc's AG) to appoint a special prosecutor. He also hired an lawyer today for himself to defend against ethics charges filed by the NC bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA-Beta (Post 1382633)

Unfortunately, the accuser is making things worse by continually running her mouth. I will finally admit that this case is looking more and more like another Tawana Brawley...:( :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccoyred (Post 1382783)

Unfortunately, the accuser is making things worse by continually running her mouth. I will finally admit that this case is looking more and more like another Tawana Brawley...:( :mad:

From MOHO/POV, unfortunatly for all involved in this, you may be correct.
One person DID walk away from the Brawley matter "untouched"; Rev Al.
As for todays new links on this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/us/12duke.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011201332.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/us...rtner=homepage
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/us...er&oref=slogin
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

What is unfortunate is that this may make other women who have been actually raped less likely to come foward. For the longest time when this case first hit the news I had always thought maybe she had been raped but just not by these boys. Maybe she had been attacked before the party or just after the party and these guys were convient scapegoats. Sadly it looks like nothing happened at all. A lot of people really put themselves out there defending this girl! If I was one of them I would be mad as hell right now! :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecupidelta (Post 1382832)

What is unfortunate is that this may make other women who have been actually raped less likely to come forward. For the longest time when this case first hit the news I had always thought maybe she had been raped but just not by these boys. Maybe she had been attacked before the party or just after the party and these guys were convent scapegoats. Sadly it looks like nothing happened at all. A lot of people really put themselves out there defending this girl! If I was one of them I would be mad as hell right now! :mad:

Yes, sadly true most likely on all of your points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1382842)

Yes, sadly true most likly on all of your points.

As a woman, I would never want to believe that another woman could make up something as heinous as rape. You just don't want too! But not only has this had an impact on rape victims, IMO, but also the effect on the Durham community. The relationship between Duke University and the city of Durham was contentious on a good day. This has just made things worse. Not only has she had an inegative mpact on lives of these 3 young men but she has had a negative impact on a whole city!!! Nothing is worth that!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA-Beta (Post 1382633)

Seeing how the Duke players are not on here, I'm not sure who you think should get an apology on here.

I never understand that line of thinking.

I didn't go back all 15 pages, but I imagine they are saying that the people who were firmly against the Duke kids owe an apology. I don't see an apology as necc, or anything for that matter, but maybe a "I was mistaken" could be appropriate. There were quite a few people who were automatically against these guys for no good reason. Of course, I'm just trying to clarify the previous post, I'm not demanding anyone do anything. I do think it is a valuable lesson regarding taking a side without any evidence to support it.

The parents of the accused were on 60 Minutes last night, with Lesley Stall picking up where Ed Bradley left off. :) They were pizzed at the prosecutor and Duke for not having their backs when they were first accused. Now that the prosecutor has left the case, I wouldn't be suprised if the all of the remaining charges are dropped. I give them until the end of Feburary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1383547)

I'm simply saying that there isn't anyone to apologize to. The Duke kids aren't on here. I always feel like people who ask like that want an apology for people disagreeing with them in the first place.

I agree, its a message board, nobody should be forced to account for their original opinions. Those opinions might look stupid enough as it is.