i'm also confused... i mean, sure people feel the way they feel... but what can you DO about it? how do you prevent having dark skinned kids? i'm being serious here. marry someone light skinned? or white? that doesn't automatically guarantee a lighter complected child.

You better stop thinking you're crashing all the time. ;)

People in American have learned how to talk all of this progressive mumbojumbo but the reality of the matter is that things haven't changed all that much. Folks have just gotten better at saving face.

It definitely doesn't because thank God that we all come in different shades, shapes, and sizes. My family reflects the different shades of blackness and it's wonderful. From the lightest light to the darkest dark.

It's amazing to me because there are people who consider themselves to be geneticists or breeders and they seek out partners who will give them a "pretty baby" based on whatever standards. That's idiocy.

Now, if 5knowledge meant that she's afraid of how her dark skinned baby would be treated by others, I challenge her to first address her fears and then prepare her child to maintain high self esteem to buffer what the world may bring her/him. From there she can focus on schooling ignorant people who are afraid of DAHHHHKNESSS!!! :)

okay I was going to leave your original comment alone until I saw this which tells me that you are not ashamed of your twisted thoughts. Perhaps you're even proud of them.:mad:

Honesty or no honesty, this kind of thinking is not cute at all. Even if I thought like this, I would keep it to myself (while I tried to deal with and get rid of these thoughts) because I would be ashamed to admit to others that I let "Massa" get into my head and succeed at his "divide and conquer" tactics.

That's exactly what you've done. I just hope you never have the opportunity to bestow that kind of thinking on a beautiful dark child because it will only destroy their self-esteem.

As far as we've come on the journey to loving ourselves, anyone who feels this way without recognizing that it is wrong and without trying to do something (counseling maybe?) to work on themselves and get rid of these thoughts, chooses to feel that way.

Just my 22 cents.

Did this come from "massa," though?

I think a lot of it comes from North America ideals and "divide and conquer" tactics but throughout this world's history cultures always had ways of dividing and ranking. Before "race," there was color, class, family lineage, gender, etc.

I'm speaking specifically about slave relations in North America and the divisions created between light skinned/mixed Blacks and darker Blacks. The whole house slave/field slave mentality.

LMAO....you are the best! I spit out my drink because I started thinking about Dave Chappell (sp?).

Well, I have stayed away from this thread for a number of reasons. However, I decided to take a read today. Wow...well...all I will say is that my parents had a darkskinned child....a girl to be exact...and word on the street is she is the shizzle!

Embrace the dahhhhkness;) because there are more important things in the world to concern yourselves with. What color my child may turn out to be is the LAST thing on mind, and honestly I am a bit surprised to hear that someone doesn't want to have a darkskinned/lightskinned or whatever child. Shoot, if you see my family, you will surely get a taste of the rainbow!

As DSTCHAOS said, I am certainly holding back too...but this is really a trip...

The 21st Century, eh?
 

'Cause if YOU don't think so....who else will? :D




ETA: I'm sad because I'm thinking about my Sororfriend and hubby who have tried desperately to have a child. She just completed a series of treatments where she had to take shots 2 and 3 times a day. After completing the process, she STILL can't have a child. I'm sure they would not care what he/she looked like as long as she could ONLY carry a child to term.

We have a place to speak about our mental health arrangements... Please join if anyone requires assistance. It is a safe-free zone.

It will always be an issue...i think light skinned people have it easier than those with dark skinned. Being light is as close to white as it gets. I'm dark-skinned and proud of it!:)

Flipping the script...

They aren't really light-skinned... They aren't really white...

http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikip...es/64/6430.jpg

http://www.africaguide.com/images/library/cs001.jpg

I have seen 2-3 people in my lifetime who look like this. I do not know anyone personally. Little girl has a cute smile!!! ;)

This genetic mutation has occured for millions of years and parents who bring the child to adulthood, usually are shunned. It is culturally taboo to have one of these children. Which is rather sad because I think that is where hatred of one's skin started with this anthropological and genetic mutation...

Gotcha. :D

DAHHHHHKNESS, everyone!

Eh...you AIGHT. :D:p

I'm not trying to be smart, but what point are you making? I have seen quite a few Black Albinos. I have an aunt and cousin who are Albino. I never heard of it being culturally taboo (maybe it is in Africa). Albinos can be of any race; they are even among animals. I can still look at the people in these pictures and tell they are Black/African.

Well...yeah...they are albino and albinoism occurs in every racial group. I have only seen black/African diasporic and white albinos in person, though.

So, suffice it to say that I would prefer that my child not be void of pigment. That's a taboo that is more than a cultural issue. It is not an issue of not wanting a child who is "too light" or "too dark."

But I figured today that someone was going to bring up albinos in this thread. And I didn't bring up albinos because that is a completely different topic.

There was this albino squirrel at the walking trail I walked on years ago.

Like you said, the facial features are the same. I'm sure there are cultural taboos because most humans aren't thrilled or completely informed at the concept of genetic mutations. Plus, among darkness, being the only one with bleached looking hair and pale skin will make one DIFFERENT. DIFFERENCES frighten people PERIOD. And I admit that having no pigmentation has a negative impact on the level of physical attractiveness for most of the albinos that I've seen.

Also Albinoism is a birth defect that comes with special care. My aunt and cousin can't go outside in bright light without wearing sunglasses among other things. This is entirely different from the genetic mutations that occurred to create a race of people from another.

I'm black and proud! :)

It just so happens that I'm a lightskinned black person. :D

Who has it tougher? Eh, what a waste of brain space. This thread isn't about that and to compare forms of struggle within a race is divide and conquer at its finest!

I am so disturbed hearing [reading] this.

i feel like she called us dark-skinned folks "darkies" or "jungle bunnies" by sharing.
who thought this stuff ended years ago? if you watch videos by OUR artists and add this person's feelings, you'll see that not much has changed.
Intraracism, gotta love it:(

More like "intraprejudice." We currently aren't talking about blacks who are withholding opportunities and resources based on colorisms.

An important note is that we are all products our environments as much as we fuel our environments. Black artists who are in the mainstream will do what sells. This comes from the larger society as well as from black community norms.

You are right about that because I love the fact that I have been beautifully kissed by the sun;).

Lol..girl please don't do it....LOL...I started having flashbacks of the last episode of GC Hospital:p. I don't know if they are ready for it:rolleyes:...

LMAO...that's messed up:p!

I'm not. Spare me. I beg.

In some African countries it is considered taboo. And since Africa is thought to be the "cradle of the human population" at least genetically speaking, and the fact it still occurs and the fact that it occurs across animal species on the planet, even in unicellular eukaryotes, then it suggests that when the genetic mutation EVOLUTIONARILY occured in human populations, and the disparates it caused in human anthropological and cultural interactions, it easily explains how come there is such bitterness about the person's skin coloration... EVOLUTIONARY time takes 1000s if not millions of years...

How easy or hard would it be to develop a systemic bitterness issues to a whole well-rounded system of hate worldwide including historical events?

Also, humanity is similar genetically for all practical purposes. Sure, our genes may not be spelled the same for every locus (area), but nonetheless, the genes are in the same place at all times... These do not shift in 200-500 years. It takes more than 2-5 millenia to change, it at all. And modern humans are thought to have been on this planet for 15-20 millenia--150,000 to 200,000 years.

Here's a question, how genetically diverse is the European human population? And how dissimilar are they from Neaderthals or Cro-Magnon?

My bad, older people and dumb rappers. :p

I do not see it a separate topic when you understand human population genetics.

Didn't you read Dr. Frances Cress Welsing's Isis Papers? Is she accurate? Maybe not completely, but she does make valid points as does Dr. Marimba Ani's works. Malidoma Some also gets the relevant information.

Human migration patterns along with pre-Roman and Columbian circumnagivation and weather patterns do conclude that there make have been a planet catatrophe during MODERN human evolution that increased the number of albino births that may have developed into a epigenetic phenomena. Maybe not full albinism, but partial or gradual lightening of the skin over 20 generations.

It is also thought that Rickett's may have played a role. And because these's adults were shunned like "leprosy", they migrated to regions--without judgement.

And Kra-katoa supervolcano exploded, too... Changing the genetics of the human population through isolation--i.e. straighter hair, thinner lips, etc.

Sweetheart, this is different... If people want to know, they know how to find us... Quite a few GCers are there.

:rolleyes:

It is, though. ;)

How is it a separate topic, genetically? I really do not understand how it could be? What would be the genetic purpose of a lighter skin tone if not for mutation, which is a part of evolution?

So without genetic mutations, all humans would be (insert complexion)? Eh....genetic mutation/evolution explanations have not been accepted across the board so you can debate that with yourself. :)

More importantly, this thread is about intragroup prejudice, regardless of the different theories behind where light/dark genetically came from. Albinism is an extreme and relatively rare condition that isn't about being "lightskinned." So to attempt to discuss albinos in a light/dark discussion is like discussing vitiligo or burn victims whose skin have been darkened. It is difficult to know whether these people will have certain advantages of disadvantages based on "colorism" versus being treated a certain way because they have a CONDITION. Conditions can generate intrigue and celebration or they can generate fear and disgust.

My stomach turned when I saw those albino photos but my stomach doesn't turn when I see photos of lightskinned or pale skinned blacks--unless the person is UGLY. While a lot of people are quick to call lighter blacks "pretty" just because they exist--I have never seen an albino black person even called "attractive."

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=22529&

Interesting article on a South African albino girl who has been shunned from school.

Question: I've got a multiracial friend (black and white) who is pretty in my opinion but she is extremely light in complexion. She faithfully goes tanning 2-3 times per week in order to achieve a darker skin complexion. My question, have multiracial children been conditioned to believe they aren't "black enough" and thus they feel the need to prove their "blackness"? This subject was hinted at in my original post with the youtube link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0BxF...eature=related

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

I read the article and I really think it has more to do with her condition (Albinism), then racism (although it probably feels like racism to her and seems like it to others). I say this because in talking to my husband (who's from Ghana) and in getting to know his family and friends and in doing my own research, I've found that many Africans have a low tolerance for handicaps and rare conditions, especially when they are unattractive. It's really sad but in many poor villages, the handicap go uncared for if they don't have family. They are seen as burdens on society and people are mean and cruel to them. Also because many Africans are very superstitious (I think this is where African Americans got their superstitions from) and still go to village elders, herbalists, and voodoo practitioners (witch doctors) for healing, many of them are told that people with rare conditions they don't understand are cursed and that they should shun them and stay away from them or they will also be cursed. Even some of those who are educated find the superstitions hard to escape. My husband, who's educated and has lived in the U.S. for over 10 years has uttered not so nice things about people who are handicap or have rare conditions (and of course I correct him), so it's an ongoing problem there and I have read that rare conditions are less tolerated in other foreign countries as well.

Yeah albinism is a genetic mutation but isn't Monet also trying to say that lighter skin, in general, is caused by a genetic mutation? :confused:

Light skin vs. Dark skin among Blacks (not including those who have Albinism)

Right but isn't AKAMonet also trying to say that lighter skin comes from a genetic mutation? Her point is misplaced but I thought that was also her point.

That may be her point (I'm not sure what her point is) but my research hasn't led me to believe that light skinned Blacks are the result of genetic mutation in the same way that genetic mutation is responsible for the evolution of one race/color from another. In the case of African Americans, we have light skinned Blacks because of European, Native American, etc. ancestry (and this doesn't mean that dark skinned Blacks don't have such ancestry because many do, including myself).

My interpretation of genetic mutation (in this way) doesn't begat light skinned Blacks.

Firstly, without genetics or epigenetics we cannot discuss ANYTHING about the human form...

Full Albinism are hotspot point mutations in the Tyrosinase gene for both alleles. There are also co-dominant effects, so that when one allele is normal for tyrosinase production toward melanin, the other mutant allele will "outrank" the absence of the allele.

The epigenetic effects of Albinism has not been extensive studied. But they exist. There are at least 3-4 forms of melanin along with the production from the TYR gene too. All varies with location, thought to be controlled by the epigenetic phenomena.

Just because there is an "absence" of melanin does not mean there is NO melanin production in ALL albinos. Melanin also aggregates in focal points in the skin. Especially in dark hued individuals and the high Sun exposure. In fact, there is thought that Sun exposure did not cause darker hues in humans. That humans were dark first, and then the color changes shifted to lighter complexions due to environmental exposures and changes. I.e. colder climates, lack of Vitamin D, Rickettsia and/or lack of sun exposure.

My references are from the discussions that took place after the Mitochondrial Eve and the Out of Africa hypotheses.

Virtiligo is a different set of genes altogether. And burn victims do not have darkened skin after the burn heals, they have a complete loss of their skin layer and zero organization of any epithelia cells altogether... So, that is outside this discussion.

Back in ancient days, people did not understand "CONDITIONS"... A culture, much like a leper colony was developed when these children were born... Think about how their minds developed, who they bred with, and how the "mutation" or "epigenes" were transmitted? So over time, it would be in the same league as how colorism could develop for various groups of people. These populations of people probably also had to migrate from the home clade because of the fear or disgust...

Over time, features changed--that which takes millenia. Many are unsure why. It is thought that it was due to a Supervolcano explosion ~100,000 years ago. Slowly eye structure, hair texture and nose shape, as well as other attributes, height, body structure changed. Probably because of food source changes--from sea to inland... More hunters than gatherers. Modern humans look like us, today. With an already mutagenized system and inbreeding, it is possible why we see this polymorphism in humanity.

Basically, we see similar activities in numerous other animals, how come we wouldn't expect to see it in humans?

Now, over time, we have diverse, random mating than we ever have seen before. Probably what we will see are taller or fatter humans and changes in ageing if we humans don't decide to change that directly.