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-   -   Plegdes wearing letters??? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=1320)

Tom Earp 02-12-2008 05:24 PM
I just wonder why people realy care?:confused:

When Doves Cry 02-12-2008 05:39 PM
yeah. same colors, id understand. but same font and layout of the whole signature?

AOII Angel 02-12-2008 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guardedbystars (Post 1598849)
I think it's more meaningful because after you (general you) initiated, you know everything about the traditions, secrets, rituals, etc etc. I feel like I wouldn't have loved my letters to the extent that I do now, knowing what they mean, if I got to wear them on Bid Day.

Are the red roses just a local tradition (i.e. do you know any other chapters that do it) or is it like the crest where you can't wear it until after initiation (where it's a national thing)? I don't think I have anything with the crest on it.
There are no restrictions against new members wearing any item of AOII including letters or roses. Our ban on roses for new members was completely intra-chapter...basically since we didn't have a crest that new members couldn't wear we acted like the rose was our crest. Also...I understand where you are coming from about letters, but knowing the meaning is important in and of itself that getting to wear the letters for the first time shouldn't over shadow it in my opinion!

AOII Angel 02-12-2008 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1598905)
Glad this was bumped, so i could add my $19.13 worth. One of the reasons my org (can't speak for the rest of the NPHC) does not allow our Intake group to wear our letters is that completion of the process is not guaranteed. Look at some of the other threads in this forum about folx de-pledging.

Plus they have their own symbols (including a pin) to be worn until they are duly initiated as a member.

Also, it is not a matter of keeping the group secret so much as it is forbidding the walking in line, dressing identically, giving greetings, etc. in public as we did pre-1988. (Delta adopted a new process before the NPHC as a whole did in response to the growing number of hazing violations.) That process served as a model for the other NPHC groups to develop their own.

Why were the above seemingly innocent activities considered hazing? Because of the 20/80 rule. There were those who took them to the extreme causing financial hardship and public embarrassment. So because of the 20 percent we had to throw the baby out with the bath water. :mad:
As we've always said, NPC and NPHC are very very different. I don't think I'd want new members wearing letters either if initiation wasn't a sure thing. NPC has an extremely high initiation rate for women who pledge. NPHC likely is not nearly as high, but the process is also not as regimented and universal across different groups. Also, the process is certainly not advertised or discussed as much as in NPC, so who knows what the percentage is! If I thought that a significant number would drop or be dropped prior to becoming full members, I wouldn't want them to represent AOII. Since the vast majority of our new members do initiate, I have no problem with them wearing our letters.

CULater 02-13-2008 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1599500)
NPHC likely is not nearly as high, but the process is also not as regimented and universal across different groups.

what do you mean?

AOII Angel 02-13-2008 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULater (Post 1599552)
what do you mean?
What I mean is that NPHC does not necessarily initiate all of it's pledges/new members, but they don't have a formal pan-NPHC recruitment that is widely advertised with a "guaranteed" pledge class of women they've never met before. NPC uses a formal recruitment process that is followed by all NPC groups on a campus. We are basically set up to very publicly take in new members and are expected to keep said new members. NPHC is a lot more circumspect in their intake practices...ie. they don't talk about it, so how do I really know that they take 20 and only initiate 2? I have to take their word for it because their system is set up to be secretive not public...and that's the way they want it! Trust me, there were no thinly veiled insults in my original post!

DSTCHAOS 02-13-2008 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1599698)
how do I really know that they take 20 and only initiate 2? I have to take their word for it because their system is set up to be secretive not public
Depends on the campus.

OWTLAW63 02-13-2008 11:51 AM
Wearing Letters is a big no no if you are not a member of my Org. Even wearing the colors would get you looked at crazy if you were a potential!!!

fantASTic 02-13-2008 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OWTLAW63 (Post 1599752)
Wearing Leters is a big no no if you are not a member of my Org. Even wearing the colors would get you looked at crazy if you were a potential!!!
So..what exactly ARE you allowed to wear? I'm pretty sure almost all colors are GLO colors.

Go naked? Oh wait..that's in the buff...

OWTLAW63 02-13-2008 02:06 PM
If your interested in joining my org, and you show up to the interest meeting in the same colors as our ORG, it is not looked as as flatering, it is usually perceived as a bit bold..
So do your research learn the history and the colors and wear something nuetral to that specific org your seeking membership into.

Then again Maybe it is just a HBGLO thing.

CULater 02-13-2008 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1599698)
What I mean is that NPHC does not necessarily initiate all of it's pledges/new members, but they don't have a formal pan-NPHC recruitment that is widely advertised with a "guaranteed" pledge class of women they've never met before. NPC uses a formal recruitment process that is followed by all NPC groups on a campus. We are basically set up to very publicly take in new members and are expected to keep said new members. NPHC is a lot more circumspect in their intake practices...ie. they don't talk about it, so how do I really know that they take 20 and only initiate 2? I have to take their word for it because their system is set up to be secretive not public...and that's the way they want it! Trust me, there were no thinly veiled insults in my original post!

guess i misheard you. i'm pretty sure every org in NPHC, have set regimented and universal (albeit private) guidelines for new member intake from the moment of expressing interest to the moment you become a member, whether or not a NM completes the process is a whole 'nother ballgame.

1908Revelations 02-13-2008 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1599698)
What I mean is that NPHC does not necessarily initiate all of it's pledges/new members, but they don't have a formal pan-NPHC recruitment that is widely advertised with a "guaranteed" pledge class of women they've never met before. NPC uses a formal recruitment process that is followed by all NPC groups on a campus. We are basically set up to very publicly take in new members and are expected to keep said new members. NPHC is a lot more circumspect in their intake practices...ie. they don't talk about it, so how do I really know that they take 20 and only initiate 2? I have to take their word for it because their system is set up to be secretive not public...and that's the way they want it! Trust me, there were no thinly veiled insults in my original post!
I don't quite understand your post. Especially when youa re talking about pledges/new members. We (NPHC) have new members in the sense they just were initiated versus someone else in the chapter who has been in for a year or more.

Are you possicbly referring to the 20 mentioned above as the amount that would show up to a rush and the 2 as ones who actually make it?

DSTCHAOS 02-13-2008 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantASTic (Post 1599801)
So..what exactly ARE you allowed to wear?
Not brown and gold if you are interested in Iota Phi Theta.

It's pretty self-explanatory.

1908Revelations 02-13-2008 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULater (Post 1599861)
guess i misheard you. i'm pretty sure every org in NPHC, have set regimented and universal (albeit private) guidelines for new member intake from the moment of expressing interest to the moment you become a member, whether or not a NM completes the process is a whole 'nother ballgame.
I think you are confused by tht post as I am.

We do not have new members that are not initiated.

CULater 02-13-2008 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantASTic (Post 1599801)
So..what exactly ARE you allowed to wear? I'm pretty sure almost all colors are GLO colors.

Go naked? Oh wait..that's in the buff...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OWTLAW63 (Post 1599856)
If your interested in joining my org, and you show up to the interest meeting in the same colors as our ORG, it is not looked as as flatering, it is usually perceived as a bit bold..
So do your research learn the history and the colors and wear something nuetral to that specific org your seeking membership into.

Then again Maybe it is just a HBGLO thing.
i'll give an example. let's say an orgs colors are.....(btw, i'm not targeting any org, if these are your colors, they are purely coincidential):

pink and silver.

if an interest comes PURPOSELY wearing those colors, or any other symbols of the org (say pearls or diamonds), that signals to the members that this interest is taking a rather presumptive attitude. You have not earned the ability to wear those colors or symbols. I'm not saying if you show up in say jeans and a white shirt w/pink and silver on it, but if you are wearing a pink shirt with silver pants with silver shoes, pink and silver bracelet, and (if one of the org's symbol is pearls), wear pearls around your neck, you 1. obviously need to take more time to learn about the greek culture, and 2. again being rather rude and presumptive.

CULater 02-13-2008 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908Revelations (Post 1599865)
I don't quite understand your post. Especially when youa re talking about pledges/new members. We (NPHC) have new members in the sense they just were initiated versus someone else in the chapter who has been in for a year or more.

Are you possicbly referring to the 20 mentioned above as the amount that would show up to a rush and the 2 as ones who actually make it?

i agree, it could just be differences in what we mean by new member. for most non-NPC/IFC, a new member is one that has completed all membership intake process and has been initiated into the organization (you can refer to them as soror, sister, etc.). We generally refer to new members as neophytes or neos. (older members can be referred to as prophytes)

HofDori 02-13-2008 02:56 PM
I read several of the posts and I must say I'm a little confussed as to what each sorority views a new member vs. a pledge. I think that may be the topic at hand. A new member means you are a member of that sorority and you have passed through initation but pledging is the learning process before you can be considered a member. For my sorority we do not allow pledges to wear letters. How ever initiation night bigs give their littles their first letters and the littles give their bigs a paddle. The new members are a part of our sorority but they can wear letters as they please.

HofDori 02-13-2008 02:58 PM
I've never heard of the terms neo or neophyte or prophyte we call our new members either new girls or newbies. and the older members are older sisters. But I do like neo and prophyte.

cuteASAbug 02-13-2008 02:59 PM
What sorority are you a member of? For the 26 NPC sororities, a new member is someone who has received and accepted a bid but has not been initiated yet.

HofDori 02-13-2008 03:03 PM
I am a sister of AEPhi. I guess definitions got misconstrued over the years. I'll double check my constitution and bylaws but I may be mistaken. That was the way it was described to me though.

33girl 02-13-2008 03:05 PM
"New member" is the politically correct term for pledge. I don't like it at all since someone really isn't a member of a group until they are initiated.

HofDori 02-13-2008 03:09 PM
Yes I agree which is why the way I interpretted it made sense. the term "member" means to be a part of. And I do not like to consider these ladies a part of my family especially knowing they can drop or be dropped at any moment.

ForeverRoses 02-13-2008 03:10 PM
let me see if I understand:

New Member- NPC-- formerly called a pledge
NPHC-- someone that has just been initiated

Pledge- NPC- someone that is not yet initated but has pledged themselves to join that organization after they have finished a pledge period
NPHC- I remember being told once that NPHC orgs no longer pledge. So I am not sure what someone that is on-line is called. Neo?

For NPC, once you accept a bid, you are considered to be a member of the organization to a certain extent. For NPHC, are you not considered part of the org until you are initiated?

I am not trying to offend anyone, so if I am asking questions that cannot/shouldn't be asked, sorry!

cuteASAbug 02-13-2008 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HofDori (Post 1599951)
Yes I agree which is why the way I interpretted it made sense. the term "member" means to be a part of. And I do not like to consider these ladies a part of my family especially knowing they can drop or be dropped at any moment.
Reasoning like that is why the NPC chose to switch over from pledge to new member- to show that the girls are basically sisters from the moment they accept their bids and are almost guaranteed to be initiated.

HofDori 02-13-2008 03:18 PM
That makes sense on paper, but it doesn't feel right, to call them members. But I guess rules are rules and they are there for a reason. Thanks for the insight it was very helpful.

ladygreek 02-13-2008 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRoses (Post 1599952)
let me see if I understand:

New Member- NPC-- formerly called a pledge
NPHC-- someone that has just been initiated
Correct for NPHC

Quote:
Pledge- NPC- someone that is not yet initated but has pledged themselves to join that organization after they have finished a pledge period
NPHC- I remember being told once that NPHC orgs no longer pledge. So I am not sure what someone that is on-line is called. Neo?
No, a neophyte is another name for a new member in the NPHC. Inductee, i.e. they have been inducted on the line, little sister, etc. In Delta we still use the group name from before MIP.

Quote:
For NPC, once you accept a bid, you are considered to be a member of the organization to a certain extent. For NPHC, are you not considered part of the org until you are initiated?
You are considered a part of the organization in that you have been invited to membership and are going through the process. But you are not a member until you are duly initiated. In fact no secrets are revealed until after initiation. Things like the meaning of the colors are not considered secrets, but rather historical information taught during the process. A person could de-pledge and not know anything more than could be found by reading certain books.

Quote:
I am not trying to offend anyone, so if I am asking questions that cannot/shouldn't be asked, sorry!
No offense taken.

PhiLove83 02-13-2008 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HofDori (Post 1599942)
I am a sister of AEPhi. I guess definitions got misconstrued over the years. I'll double check my constitution and bylaws but I may be mistaken. That was the way it was described to me though.
I am an AEPhi as well, our nationals changed their policy and our new girls are no longer called pledges, they are new members, and newly initiated girls are referred to as new sisters. I believe that this changed in the late nineties.

ForeverRoses 02-13-2008 05:57 PM
Ladygreek- thank you for the clarification!

CULater 02-13-2008 06:18 PM
for us, a pledge (inductee/candidate) is referred to as orientee in the general term when referring to someone who is undergoing the process but have yet to be initiatied.

knight_shadow 02-13-2008 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULater (Post 1600112)
for us, a pledge (inductee/candidate) is referred to as orientee in the general term when referring to someone who is undergoing the process but have yet to be initiatied.
So the "interested lady" process is different from an actual pledge process in LTA? Some of your sisters at my school use the terms interchangeably.

When Doves Cry 02-13-2008 09:10 PM
one of our new members got her letters today.
she pledged 2 days ago

CULater 02-13-2008 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1600134)
So the "interested lady" process is different from an actual pledge process in LTA? Some of your sisters at my school use the terms interchangeably.
anyone can be an interested lady (even those who will never commence/go on line, become orientees). that's what it means. an interested lady is one who is interested in LTA and is in the process of learning more about LTA. we have an interest group where many interested ladies are a part of (the interest group is referred to as Interested Ladies of Lambda Theta Alpha Latin Sorority, Inc. for advertising/student group registration purposes for some schools). that is all i will say, but please believe that we don't use them interchangeably. it's pretty difficult to understand, but definitely there is no "interested lady" process.

knight_shadow 02-13-2008 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULater (Post 1600292)
anyone can be an interested lady (even those who will never commence/go on line, become orientees). that's what it means. an interested lady is one who is interested in LTA and is in the process of learning more about LTA. we have an interest group where many interested ladies are a part of (the interest group is referred to as Interested Ladies of Lambda Theta Alpha Latin Sorority, Inc. for advertising/student group registration purposes for some schools). that is all i will say, but please believe that we don't use them interchangeably. it's pretty difficult to understand, but definitely there is no "interested lady" process.
That's what I was referring to. Thanks for clearing that up.

CULater 02-13-2008 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1600301)
That's what I was referring to. Thanks for clearing that up.

cool, that's what i thought. it can get confusing, but i'm trying make it clear without being too vague...:p

LainaIsPHIMU 02-18-2008 11:59 PM
I recall being told not to were stiched or embroidered letters as a pledge, but there was several girls who did, I didn't that whole time, but they didn't do anything if you did. The only think we couldn't wear at all where badges. but basically they really don't enforce it too much here

IBelieve1897 02-20-2008 02:20 AM
No letters till initiation in Sigma Pi

chicostateksig 02-21-2008 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by James (Post 14095)
Nationally Kappa Sigma's policy is that pledges may wear letters but nothing with the symbols of the fraternity, the crest or star and crescent. No doubt some of the policy is designed to help colonies.

Local chapters definitely differ with the general trend that I have seen being no lettters for pledges.

Interesting enough, when we colonized we had members go out and buy letters the very next day . . . but when we recieved our charter these same people were the ones who voted against pledges wearing letters until initiated. Odd hypocracy.

[This message has been edited by James (edited April 25, 2001).]
HAHA i am a Colony Brother and i dont own a set of letters because i dont think i have earned them yet. i think pledges not even colony brothers should wear them but i can see why our organization decides to make it okay.

PhiKapSkulls 02-22-2008 02:43 PM
Nope except for pledge pins. The peldge pins could only be worn on collared shirts. Whch meant we had to wear collared shirts all the time. Sometimes pledges didn't pick up on that and would wear t-shirts and no pins. You can bet they were told what was meant by "only with collared shirts". Of coruse, the pins had to be removed on the rare occasions we we were able to partake in certain bevergaes.

urbanfemme 02-23-2008 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiDdLMiSsGrEeK (Post 1598863)
for my sorority pledges are not allowed to wear letters or sport them in any fashion. Pledges are also not to write the letters until they are fullfledged sisters. They can write the whole name out, but I'm not sure if they're allowed to wear it or not. However to distinguish pledges from sisters, pledges wear pledge pins as well as other things to distinguish them from sisters. They do not what our letters mean and they have not earned them. As a sister or brother of your GLO how do, or how would, you feel about pledges wearing letters before initiation? I know I would be like "hey you haven't gone through everything that I had to go through to earn MY letters. You don't deserve them." also if a pledge can wear letters before init. if they do drop how can u guarantee they will not sport "their letters"?
For my chapter at my school, that's how it works. We're also not allowed to wear our colors together either.

DEVODUDE 02-23-2008 02:02 PM
In ZBT, our new members are allowed to wear the letters of the fraternity, however, they are not allowed to wear national brother pin or chapter pin until they successfully complete the membership development process and are initiated into the brotherhood.


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