"Study" is where the miscommunication may be.

In general, we are expected to know basic info about other NPHC organizations but we don't "study" these organizations.

This goes back to understanding the history behind the NPHC. I don't think an aspirant can appreciate Delta's history and worth without knowing a certain amount of information about the other NPHC orgs (and a little info on Greek Life, in general). Just like I believe an aspirant who is ignorant to certain aspects of American history can't place many of Delta's accomplishments within the proper contexts.

You'd be hard pressed to come across an aspirant who doesn't know some basic info on NPHC orgs because even before the internet, aspirants were expected to be inquisitive and wide-eyed.

this is only speaking for us, and an interjection, not a debate. we were asked to research and make presentations on the NPC, NPHC, and IFC, as well as all the other orgs in the MGC. it wasn't something we had to memorize, and i certainly couldn't name all 26 NPC orgs off the top of my head or anything like that, but as a newer organization, our founders rightly felt it was nessessary for us to be aware of where we come from and be knowledgeable about other orgs. however, charter lines are required to do this, chapter lines are only reccomended.

Gotcha. Part of my confusion was that I thought it would be very difficult to understand the history of a BGLO without some reference to the other groups - but now I think I've got it.

Slight change of focus - is there an appreciable difference in north and south chapters of BGLOs?

I consider anything under 100 total to be a small chapter, good chapter size would be 150-200.

As for the issue of chapter size and national recognition, I referenced a few sororities that I thought had greater name recognition in any region. Chi-o for instance, has about 175 chapters according to wikipedia. The site I looked at for the other sorority showed about 40-50 chapters, mostly in the Midwest. I'm not saying that makes it 'bad' by midwest standards, just that it wouldn't be viewed the same way in the South.

That's the context in which you all did this. :)

Yes..this makes sense. It would be a waste of time for anyone to spend hours learning everything there is to know about an org they will never be a part of.

No.

A musical intermission - courtesy of "Barnum!"
 

Bigger isn't better
Taller isn't braver
Stronger isn't always wise

Smaller isn't necessarily the lesser
Guts can come in any size

Lady luck can favor
Just a little shaver
Over one who's 6-foot-3

Brains in any tussle
Mop the floor with muscle
Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

(Chorus:)
Bigger isn't keener
Larger isn't bolder
Higher might be low inside
When you need to lean upon a friendly shoulder
Narrow's just as good as wide
See the mighty lion sittin there and crying bitten by a tiny flea
Mammoth was colossal what's he now? A fossil!
Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

What strong and hope they lag along
Get brains and heart
That handsome hunk might be a Lilliputian medley,
Proven consequently...
Though he shows his shoulders twice as big as boulders
If his brain's a tiny pea
When your in a pickle
He ain't worth a nickel
Bet your life I'm...Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

Not that I have noticed.

yeah, that's what i meant when i said i wasn't debating. lol, it would be pretty silly for me to be like "Well, we do it, so why don't ya'll???" i understand why we did it and i feel it was very enlightened of our founders to realize that we had to be twice as knowledgeable to get half the respect coming up as a new org. i certainly wouldn't be offended if you asked me general information like "what are your colors? what year were you founded?" because it's NOT general information to most people! but for us, we need to KNOW every else's facts without a doubt or we look like we don't respect our predecessors enough to find out.

Well, that's not where I was going with that. LOL.

I think your approach is an excellent one. When we incorporate such an approach it is on a chapter basis, and not uniform across chapters, because the context doesn't always warrant that.

For instance, there are tons of chapters that exist on HBCUs so the exposure to nonBGLO fraternities and sororities would be limited to those orgs that have chapters at HBCUs, which only applies to a few fraternities and sororities. :)

I think this is something that needs to be viewed in context, not only in terms of north v. south, but with regard to small v. large schools. 150-200 members per chapter at university with 30,000 undergrads is one thing; 200 members in a chapter at a school with 2000 students would be kind of ridiculous for any NPC org, regardless of whether it's Chi O or TPA (IMHO).

Finally, I totally understand that not everyone, especially in the South, will have heard of my org. I recognize that we're not a blip in the SEC world of tiers, etc. It's more a matter of the "asshat-vibe" (thanks 33) and choosing to remain ignorant that got under my skin.

ETA: bowsandtoes, I don't think you were doing that. I appreciate that you took a moment to learn.

And, Ilaria Ame, i think it's pretty awesome that your NME includes that info.

/I really did try to get this back on track before.

On that North/South discussion note, as a Yankee transplant in the South, I've noticed that the engagement announcements in the newspapers here usually state which sorority the girl is in. i.e. "Miss Suzie Bigrock attended xxx University where she was a member of xxx sorority and graduated with a bachelor of arts degree in English". They also mention the boys fraternity.

Just in regard to bowsandtoes. A good size chapter at some school may be 150+, and my school has sororities of this size, but due to the fact that we can not accomodate meetings for chapters of that size easily and if chapters continue to grow we'll be having meetings outside, we are doing the extension process so that the chapters can maintain a size that is healthy for OUR campus. So it's not a matter of any specific number being a good size at every campus, because if you look at it, the actual amount that is a "good size" is usually total that is usually set by the Panhellenic at the school. At some schools that may be 6 or 20, or 75, or 170. It really just depends. Campuses are different and greek life must accomodate those differences and vice versa. We are simply not all what your ideal of greek life is, nor do we aspire to be, because we can only hope to be our campuses best attainable concept of greek life. What's good for the goose does not work for the gander in this particular case. In addition to that. The school and the sororities already there pick the chapters that join when adding an additional sorority. So it's not your job to approve if perhaps its a smaller or larger one nationally. They pick what meets the needs of the campus and will continue to do so over time. It's not done at random, no one plunks down and says "this is it". It's a careful process. Similar (usually) for the fraternities. Those involved know what they're doing!

Please show me where I said that, although for my org it is true. There is plenty of our own history to learn. But that is not what I typed.