I agree. It may have made the parents feel better, but it was scary as hell for a lot of the kids.

I think it's interesting that those same air raid/missle sirens are now Tornado sirens (at least in this part of the country) I get weirded out in St. Louis where their sirens are electronic and can broadcast voice messages.

I was thinking about "Air Raid Sirens" while I was posting earlier. They could scare the heck out of a person if they didn't realize that it was noon on Friday when they were always tested when I was growing up.

As for the electronic voice, when I'm inside, I can understand it about as well as the electronic voice in the train at the Atlanta airport -- or a bus driver.

Yeah, I never even heard the sirens inside a classroom, thus proving how safe I was while at SLU. Even outside you can't understand because they overlap as they echo and go off throughout the city.

I have pretty good siren-radar so to speak. It can be 3 in the morning at home and I'll be fast asleep but sirens go off and BAM I'm up. I consider it a good survival technique for Central Illinois.

Not to pull away from this topic?

But, in the LXA Cross and Creseant concerning R M, there were 23 three Chapters or Colonies that were Censored, Suspened, or Closed.

One being Mu, The University of Cal.

It has come down to a true fact-Insurance, economics and public relations with either the City/Town or College.

I imagine by the time my kids go to college, fraternities will simply be clubs. They'll probably meet for chapter at a classroom on campus, hold hands, talk about brotherhood, and go home. Seems to be going that way.

Believe it or not just a few months ago a whole shelter was found under one the the East River Bridges in NYC. And the stuff was still sealed......

I do consider us to be the final fratty generation. It's too bad.

I don't think so. You guys might be from the south, where hazing is a little more... well, more. But In the north, we're sometimes just as frat-tastic without the hazing. It's almost like Miller lite - great taste, less filling, and so on.

I was "hazed." Not as bad as my chapter used to haze, but still. My chapter, while I was there, put an end to the hazing, partly because of internal pressures but more because of pressure from our IHQ. It's been interesting, seeing the difference from my class to the newest classes, where you can see the different degrees of hazing. The newer girls seem to respect each other more. When I was initiated, I didn't respect the girls I was initiated with nor did I respect those that initiated me. So how does hazing create respect? It's all a show - when I showed respect to older sisters, I was secretly envisioning myself punching them in the face. It's not just "a walk in the park," there still is a lot of personal responsibility. Even more so.

Used to be, if a new member didn't meet responsibilities, they'd be punished. Now, if a new member doesn't meet responsibilities, her membership will be reviewed and if it's bad enough, revoked. I'd 100% rather deal with a punishment than be KICKED OUT. A punishment is like... 4 extra hours a week of study tables or something... not being removed from the chapter completely. Or facing other punishments that chapter members get, like losing social privileges. That, I think, is more of an encouragement to get your stuff done than being hazed is.

Kyle -- well said.

Kyle -

Excellent post and I totally agree.

Kyle, one, that is a great verse, but has very little relevance. If anything, you should speak to national HQ, who is more than willing to sacrifice a long tradition of Christian ideals for a little political correctness.

Also, your POW comments are completely idiotic. People like you continue to act as though pledges who are "hazed" are treated like prisoners, which they are obviously not. They have tasks to perform, God forbid you push anyone in this day and age. I'd hate to shatter the self esteem of these fragile 18 year old boys. Its not like they'll encounter anything in life they'll need confidence for. So yeah, making them go through difficult things to establish confidence and loyalty is worthless. I'm sure our nation's military training has no value either.

I'm glad you found some place you enjoy. However, I hope my chapter still continually chooses to make pledges earn their RIGHT to wear our letters. To stop doing so would be disrespectful to the great men who have come before us. In questioning our practices, all I need to do is to ask the following questions:
1) Does it have a purpose? Yes, it always does.
2) Does it work? Yes, our pledges are loyal to each other, love the organization, and are more confident in their abilities.
3) What becomes of those who go through pledgeship? They become very successful people, including businessmen, militarly leaders, congressmen and people like my father.

Fraternities are not for everyone. If a student needs reassurance and coddling, tell him to call his mother, not to go through rush. Fraternity life here isn't for the weak of spirit.

(From worst hazing stories thread)


I'm just wondering what the purpose of this is??? I don't see how scrubbing with toothbrushes and then eating food off the floor behind a toilet is helpful, but maybe that's just me.

-J

PS...Kyle, I agree with your post as well

There's a reason why it's the "worst" hazing stories thread, and not the best. Because, gasp, hazing is bad.

If hazing was so great, why would it be illegal in several states, if not all of them? I hope people that haze realize this. We worry so much about being busted for underage drinking and so on, and how that's going to affect our fraternal life, but what about being busted for HAZING? We're talking multi-million dollar lawsuits, jail time, and a revoked charter, not a revoked driver's license and a DUI course.

As for the breakfast story, it is neither dangerous nor without point. Its not like they eat it with their face, we simply have them put in on the ground and then pick it up to eat it. Trust me, generally whatever they eat off is cleaner than most anything in the fraternity house, hence the point. Nobody has ever gotten sick, or anything of the sort. It isn't even gross to watch, especially since they've been cleaning for the last few hours. I don't know if they even do it anymore, but I hope they do. It was always done early in pledgeship, and it gives the pledge a personal reason for working hard on their tasks. The point of this, which is explained to them, is that when they clean, they're not just cleaning for us, but for them as well. It may be there house one day, and we want them to take pride in their efforts to keep it in good shape.