How is calling people "trashy" ladylike? Please explain.

Leave my sister alone! :p

OK, I haven't read all the posts, but here's my 2 cents... Smoking is disgusting. A very bad habit! Do not smoke!!! Sorry... I'm an RN at a heart hospital. I have seen enough 20-30 somethings come through my door with heart attacks and needing bypass surgery and they were smokers... of course usually starting as a young teen. My husband quit smoking and then started again. I tell him it's gross and he smells all the time. Think of the long term effects please... not if it trashy or not. I won't call anyone trashy, but you don't look pretty with a cig hanging out of your mouth! The smokers in my house had to go on our back porch area. OK... stepping off my soapbox now! :D

I think the biggest issue is society's current views on smoking. It is beat into peoples' head from the time they're wee children that smoking is a dirty, disgusting, unhealthy and evil habit. Peoples' gut reactions on smoking will usually stem from this view.

Even as recently as 20 years ago, society's views on smoking was very different -- it was cool, acceptable and somewhat encouraged (yes, even for women in genteel Southern families).

I smoked in college. I still smoke occasionally now (well, not currently, but before I got pregnant I did). It is my personal choice to smoke and I can do so pretty much when, where, how and why I want to. While in college, I did refrain from smoking on our property and usually in my letters (though not always) because I figured it was a small thing on which to comply. When I saw girls from other chapters smoking (with or without their letters) trashy was not my first thought; usually it was "man, I could go for a smoke about now". I know it's bad for me, I hate the way it smells and how I feel the morning after the better part of a pack, but I still choose to smoke. Just like I still choose to eat big fatty Big Macs even though I know they're loaded with saturated fats.

There are so many larger things to worry about than whether or not smoking/drinking in your letters is tacky/trashy/slutty/whatnot.

Um, they did "outlaw" drunk driving. You can, in fact, go to prison for that.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking...

I think this is an insane issue.

One of the scratch tests for for the objective validity of a social issue is whether the perception of the situation would apply to both boys and girls.

In this case fraternities are not going to make a big deal about whether its members smoke. Personal opinions notwithstanding, fraternities are unlikely to try to micromanage its members on this issue through either rules or guilt.

If women need yet another reason to feel superior or judgemental towards each other, thats fine, but its something that part of "girl culture" versus a social perception that encompasses both genders equally.

So have at it ladies.

You know its funny. Even though patriarchal culture is blamed for the opression of women, I swear women do more to hold each other down or back than men do.

This is interesting for me. I know a lot of guys who think they know a lot about girls, but can never get dates. Isn't that funny?

I'll buy that. I grew up in a family where everyone smokes, especially on my father's side. To this day, I'm the only person in my immediate family and the only one on my father's side who hasn't smoked.

Although I wish my parents wouldn't smoke (after seeing my grandfather go through emphysema), I've never looked at it as "disgusting, dirty" or anything like that. When you grow up seeing your whole family smoking, that changes your perception.

As an aside, I've always found it kind of odd that I never picked up the habit.

Because if they keep people from smoking, the most they are doing is putting themselves out of whatever cut of the vending machine they get, if that. If they cut people off from drinking, they are cutting off their own profits.

I know. That's why I said it'd be almost impossible because they'd lose out on alot of sales and it'd be hard to track people down and keep stats on them. It's just that drunk driving seems alot more dangerous than being in a smokey bar... but I supposed that's an opinion that would differ from one person to the next.

I just thought about this. As a collegiate we weren't allowed to go to the bar or drink in our letters, as respect to our founders and letters and because of the whole drinking "reputation". But as an alumni I think people care alot less... not even as an alumni but as an older member. Maybe it's just part of getting older and becoming more responsible.

I grew up with a mom who smokes like a chimney... my brother and I hate it to this day. Our clothes smelled, the house smelled, my brother has respiratory problems. Luckily my brother and I have not picked up the habit! I hate being in an enclosed area with someone smoking. I start to have trouble breathing. Now that I work in an area where I see what smoking does to you, I take every chance I get to educate about smoking cessation. Yes, it's your choice. But it's not my choice to have secondhand smoke, it's not your friends, family, children to have it either. So- if you smoke please do not do it where it can potentially hurt someone else. Try to quit... start by just cutting down. Little steps will help you. Think of the money you'd save! ;) When I see someone smoking I don't think trashy... I said that before. I also said you don't look pretty... I mean this by how the aging process works. You do not age well when you are a smoker. I'm not here to offend anyone who smokes. Just here to try to get one more person to quit. I'd like to see all of you around for a long time! That's all. :)

Is that because they smoke in their letters? :p