Since this was brought up again...

I rushed at Indiana University almost eleven years ago (AAAAAAH!) as a sophomore. (The hypercompetitiveness of IU formal rush has been discussed here several times) At the time, some chapters (Alpha Phi, Delta Gamma, Phi Mu and one more I can't remember...I want to say Kappa Delta but I could be wrong) cut sophomores and above in the first round. There were only two or three chapters which pledged juniors, and if you were a senior, forget it. I knew a few girls who did pledge as sophomores...chapters took maybe one to three per pledge class, if that. (I dropped out of rush midway through.)

I did think it was kind of a shame that girls who probably would have made wonderful sisters got cut just because of age. Not everyone finishes college in four years, and what of those people who join as freshmen and transfer, deactivate, or graduate early?

My Alpha Phi Omega chapter had no such requirement. I did know people who pledged their final semester senior year and made wonderful brothers. I pledged as a junior and we had freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors in my pledge class. Of course APO is a bit different since we are a service fraternity. Anyone who came to rush and wanted to pledge could pledge, and everyone who completed the pledge program and did the required service hours was initiated.

I go to school with Sugar and Spice at UW-Madison, and I have to agree that those who take sophs and juniors do get awesome pledge classes! I know in my house, our fall pledges have a few sophomores (one who is seriously "Super Pledge") and my lil sis happens to be a junior and she is one of the most amazing people that I know in there! Her grade-status did not hurt her though at all because she told me she preffed one of the more popular sororities here (which I also happen to know took sophomores). I definitely think that it can hurt girls if they're not freshmen but if they're awesome girls, they stand out and have a chance of getting into the top houses on campus. The only bad thing, is that my lil sis told me that as a junior, she relates better to girls already in the house and not very easily to her pledge class.

All I'm going to say is that a strong rushing chapter offers bids to mainly freshmen. That way, you have them for four years. Sure, pledge a couple of truly outstanding upperclassmen, but the great majority should be freshmen (if you're a top chapter).

when i go through c.o.b. in the spring, i will be technically a junior. wow that sounds weird.

:rolleyes: I think you have to keep in mind that what a "strong rushing chapter" is depends entirely on the school. Sure, at Alabama, LSU, IU, you need freshman for the finances and the show. At smaller schools, you can get away with taking mostly upperclassmen. My chapter pledges very few freshmen and we manage to have fabulous pledge class retention and stay at the average chapter size just fine. I'd rather pledge juniors every year and have girls who geniunely want to be in the house, than some freshman who rushed us because we had cuter coats or a prettier flower or boyfriends in the right fraternity.

GeekyP, what you ahve said is so true!:)

The mind set is get New Frosh Candidates so they can be there for 4/5 years.:(

The idea of getting more mature people to rush is:

They have a mind set for study.
Are a lot more mature.
Have a better idea for what they want.
Are more effecient to do things like hold and office, make grades, and participate in extracurricular activites.

What is funny, is that there is only maybe a 2 year spread between them.:D

When people rush as a junior, you KNOW they are doing it for the right reasons. Freshmen drop a lot, whether it's before or after initiation. This isn't specific to my chapter, I've discussed it with friends at quite a few schools. Freshmen can definitely be rushing for the right reasons, but they can also be rushing because their mom/friend/sister/boyfriend/cow wants them to, or because their roommate is and they felt pressured. Later, they'll get in and they'll realize they didn't like it, or that they picked the wrong house during rush, etc. I think there are under 5 girls in my chapter right now who rushed as freshmen and I don't think anybody would consider us a weak chapter - we went onto that campus when no other nationals had the guts to. I just get really really sick of this idea that you MUST have freshmen. Plus, quite frankly, one think I like about sophomores is that you've seen them for a year. All you really know about the freshmen from Podunk, Iowa, is that she's from Podunk, Iowa, and lives in X dorm and is an ElEd major. You don't know if she's going to dance on the tables at your banquet or drink in your letters.

Not to mention freshmen transferring or quitting. Either they leave after the first semester cause they miss the hometown honey, or they leave after second semester because they've realized that their 18 year dream of being a (insert career here) is something that they actually have no desire to do and the only reason they're at XYZ University is to do it.

NutBrnHair and GeekyPenguin both bring up very good points.

Freshmen are definitely desirable because it's more likely that they'll be around for the full 4 years. They might depledge, deaffiliate, transfer away, drop out, etc., but a junior is definitely going to be gone in 2-3 years (generally speaking). Freshmen who do stick around for 4 years bring some continuity, and of course, 4 years' worth of dues.

But that doesn't mean a chapter should exclusively take freshmen. It just plain doesn't make sense to cut someone who's smart, outgoing, interested in community service, etc. simply because she's a junior - especially if you don't see those qualities among the freshmen.

This is why I like the idea of a separate junior/senior quota. This way, a chapter can take the smart, outgoing junior without having to "give up a spot" that would otherwise go to a freshman.

4 years or 4ever?
 

It seems that for a fair number of NPC orgs, once college is over, they don't really participate in Greek Life that much. I acknowledge that some GC'ers may be exceptions. Here's a questions, if Alum involvement were stressed, and all the girls were encouraged to go Alum and stay involved, would a girl's class standing be as big of an issue when she rushed/COB'ed?

While theses orgs are "collegiate" in nature, it seems such a waste to let so many positive women go merely b/c they will only be able to contribute on a collegiate level for a short time.

It really has more to do with revenue (4 years dues vs. 2 years dues) and keeping the house filled than with anything the members do or don't do as alumnae.

I agree with 33girl. I think that collegiate members, advisors and the people at HQ are probably more concerned with keeping the houses filled and the dues being paid.

It's unfortunate, though, because to many of us membership is for life. It would be hard to change, though, because it's just do darn expensive to keep these big huge mansions up and running. The organizations don't get very much money from alumnae (I think my yearly dues are approximately $30) and if alumnae ever donate, I think they usually donate to the foundation and not the organization itself.

I don't like that so much of it has to do with money, but what can you do?

I can understand the economics of needing enough girls to fill the house so you can pay the bills. I am sure there are huge chapter differences based on university as well.

Here's another question: Why can't houses take more girls than can live in the house? I am guessing that at a fair number of schools, the juniors live off campus already. If a junior wants to join, but there's no room in the house, why not let her pay a "live-out" rate?????

DUES!!!!
 

Wow! I hate to post again so quick, but I didn't realize your alum dues were so cheap! I'm jealous. Including chapter and national dues, my alum dues are at least $300 per year.