By saying that, do you mean you wish you had gone to a different university?

I would just like to say that any fraternity that would not acept you for who you are is not a fraternity that you would want to be a part of. Believe it or not there are a lot more gay/lesbian members in sororities and fraternities than people assume. Heck, our last two sweethearts for my sorority were gay, and they are both fraternity members themselves. The point I'm trying to make is gay or straight, they are people and they have feelings. To turn someone down because of that not only saddens me, but disgusts me. How could you live with yourselves knowing that you are a racist? Anyways, moving on...rush! You will be suprised by the open armed welcome you will recieve from organizations you will love to be a part of. All the other ones...aren't worth your time and are going to be missing out on wonderful people. Screw 'em!;)

We're tossing around some pretty loaded words in here...

Homophobic -- Damasa put it perfectly... Overused and used incorrectly probably most of the time.

I think many people have gone so far as to say in a civil manner that they would not like gays as brothers. They find it to be immoral.

Just like a fella that steals and lies... it's on that same level with many people.

To stigmatize them as 'homophobic' is truly unfair. Perhaps they're not 'open to alternative lifestyles' but I think that phrase describes a different belief system altogether.

__________

I may be blind... but I'm seeing opinions on this subject being divided down lines of gender. Let me be so bold as to say at least in my personal experience it is different in fraternities than it is with sororities.

Attitudes towards alternative lifestyles are different. Especially with the 18-19 year olds we're trying to throw bids at during Recruitment.

I think the fear is that many 18-19 year olds would dump one house in favor of the 'straight' house is real. It seems almost inevitable.

This is I think a well justified fear among many houses that have not experienced this issue first hand. To preach (and yes, some in here ARE preaching) a doctrine at someone who is just looking out for their houses best interests is not fair. It's aggressive behavior and I don't believe you can change attitudes that way.

_____________________________

Let's try to understand that many of us do not see this as such a black and white, good and bad type issue. It has many shades of grey. Many reactions for our actions. It is not fair to stand back from the action, not understanding the true implications of it and saying that what someone else does is wrong.

This issue is actually very complex for many of us.

Fortunately in many places the doors are open wide to ANYONE. Still, in other places in the name of image or competition they are not. This will change (or might not) as general attitudes change. Don't try and force it.

LHT
Kevin

Does anyone even remember the original question? :confused: I personally do not think that if this guy is openly gay that he will be invited to join most houses. If one were to believe in the Kinsey study that 1 out of every 10 men is homosexual, then of course almost every house probably has at least one or two gay brothers, but they most likely were not out when they rushed.

One other point-please do not associate being gay as a minority group like African-American or Asian-American or Latino. They are not the same! I am an African-American male in a overwhelmingly White Anglo Saxon Protestant national fraternity. When I went through rush, there was no way I could hide who I was. A homosexual male can hide who he is. I don't know if homosexuals are born gay, or if it is other factors that make them that way, but they are not a minority group in my opinion, and it really takes away from the real minority groups that have worked so hard to be given equal rights. And I am not homophobic-Hell, I live in the gayest area in the country-30 miles from San Francisco! You don't know gay until you've spent Halloween in S.F. :D

Kevin (Sigma Nu),

I like the way you write; you seem to be a thoughtful person. I'm wondering however, if you realize that at the same time you say homophobia is the wrong word, you use the word 'fear' at least twice. (phobia =fear)

I don't want to emphasize symantics or grammar, though. But I do wonder why almost everyone talks about 'lifestyle' and such as a defining factor.

I'm gay but I live and work the same way most straight people do. I don't have a "lifestyle" that's any different. I don't even know what is meant by that.

I get up in the morning, go to work, pick up my mail on the way home, and then check my e-mail and write back to my fraternity brothers. I'm the president of my alumni association and it keeps me very busy.

I told everyone I'm 'gay' because I'm just not attracted to girls. I figure that's being honest. There are alot of brothers of every fraternity who are this way. You wouldn't know it if they didn't tell you.

The real question is: What would you do if they did? Don't answer this. Just think what you would do if one of your bros was honest with you. It's not an easy question and the answer is sometimes not known until it actually comes down to the actual fact.

I was very afraid to come out, but when I did it was very anti-climactic. My brothers didn't short-change me - I had short-changed them all that time.

Jono

Jono, I'm glad you replied.

I used the word "fear" not directed at the "lifestyle" (I'll get to that later) but the potential outcomes of recruiting openly gay members.

Actually that has hurt at least one group on my campus. My little brother (blood) wouldn't even consider a certain group because they had like 8 fellas come out at once. This group's house has been the subject of much speculation and persecution since this time.

Sad but true, in our backwards corner of the Bible Belt these feared consequences are very very real.

It comes down to a very difficult question for a fraternity's leadership to address (or several)

Should we refuse to extend a bid to an openly gay man due to the possible fallout?

Does this man understand that with Sigma Nu you must have a 100% vote to be initiated? (this is sometimes a stumbling block, even when you have just ONE brother that doesn't consider ALL the facts about an individual).

And of course there are more.... For a chapter in my part of the country these are very real issues when it comes to this subject and they are very complex.
_______________

As for lifestyle I should have qualified that as percieved lifestyle.

When a person thinks of what a gay man is supposed to be like (and most people think that way) they have a certain image. That is to say certain stereotypes are expected. Things like limp wrists and talking with a lisp and things done behind closed doors.

When a man says he's gay that's what many people think. They must come out of their comfort zones and explore the facts about each individual person. Some are willing and some are not.

It's that "some" that keep getting us hung up.

________________

You told me not to answer the question "What would they do if they did?" But I feel obligated to do so :D

While some might imagine the worst (and I'd bet a brother on the verge of coming out would do so), I honestly believe that their experience would be similar to yours. Very anti-climatic.

The fact that we already know this person and have already formed our concept of who they are I think will lead us to the truth that regardless of what they do.. they're still a brother.

__________________

I've heard great things about your love and dedication to your organization. I could only hope to be blessed with brothers with the same zeal as yourself.

And I could give a rat's ass about anything else:D

It is very possible to be an outstanding greek member when you are homosexual. At my school (a fairly conservitive d-2 university in a midwestern town of 11,000) there quite frankly aren't many openly gay people. However I can think of a chapter who has a member that just graduated who is openly gay, and from what I understand he was a great member. He was the secretary of his chapter, president of the gay/straight alliance, on the homecoming court, and in several other organizations. I asked a friend of mine in his chapter what he thought of him being gay and how the chapter as a whole accepted it. He said something to the affect of, "He's a brother. Who cares if he's gay, that's his choice, it doesn't make him any less of a person or a brother because of it. What matters is that he's a brother, and we accept him for who he is, no matter what." This fraternity is also one of the top chapters on campus in recruitment, awards, grades, etc., and has been around since sometime in the 50s (a long time for our campus). I totally respect and applaud these guys for their openess to diversity...very classy.:)

I'm reading this thread, and finding it interesting. I've posted before, and won't repeat what was there, but I do have new things to say. its late, so if I repeat something someone else has said, I apoligize.

As much as a paticular chapter of a paticular fraternity or soroity might embody the values of their founders, there are others who might be slightly different, less zelous. Or, interpert the belifes of their founders in a different manner. I know my chapter is very liberal. I am straight, but when I joined my fraternity, if you included my pledge class, about 30% of my house was gay or bisexual when I joined it. We had 11 different countries represented inour house. When my fraternity was founded, it was founded by all white men.

We are different than our founding members. than our founding chapter. Yet we embodie the values and belifes of our founders and the Fraternity as a whole. But I'm sure there is a chapter or two of sigma nu out there that might disagree, or at least a member somewhere.

I traveled to virgina last summer, to go to College Of Chapters, a meeting of delegates from every chapter of sigma nu around the US and Canada. This summer, I am going to Grand chapter, another meeting of Sigma Nu's, this time, in toronto. Last summer, I met all sorts of people. some of whom I connected with, some of whom probably would not have rushed my chapter, and had different views and beliefs. But I feel I would have been hard pressed to find soeone who did not try and follow the desires of our founders in their goals of Sigma Nu.

I think many chapters have different ways of living out what their rituals and histories place down before them.

Sigma Chi may, in one opinion, not be a place for Gay's. Others might interepert things a bit differently. I Don't know why they were founded, or what their goals are.

The TKE's on my campus are All white, middle/upper class males. They've had gay/non-white members, but they've all left. (they have recently recolonized, and this year was the first year that the "new tke's had any graduates). I know some who were against any Gay's joining TKE, and others who were for it.

One fo the reasons I joined Sigma nu, is because of how THIS chapter embodied the values of Sigma Nu. I've gone to other chapters, visited, and talked with the members. And some of them do things in a way that I would feel comfortable as a brother, and as a pledge, but would not have drawn me in for rush. Does this make them sup-par sigma nu's? not at all.

Everyone here is a representitive from their respective orginazations, but by no means represent their ENTIRE fraternity or Sorority. Remember that too. Don't judge all members off of one or two people here and their views.

M
Sigma Nu
Delta Theta Chapter,
Knox College

Re: Being Gay and Greek
 

If you are going to school if Fla then look up UF Pike. His chapter is looking for a few good men.

Re: Re: Being Gay and Greek
 

:rolleyes:

I bet you know about all the "good men", huh?

:rolleyes:

When I mentioned the word "lifestyle" I didn't mean it in a degrading sense. I was thinking about the sexual preference side of a lifestyle and relating it to the word usage of "homophobia/homophobic." Maybe I should have been clear when I stated this but I was more interested in the usage of the word "homophobic" simply because I hear it used incorrectly somtimes.

question
 

I was wondering if a gay member of GC such as Jono or librasoul could answer a question.

If homosexuals are really attracted to members of the same sex then how come many gay couples seem to have one masculine person and one feminine person?

Example.. Ellen Degeneris and Anne Heche. Anne dresses femanine and acts feminine while Ellen wears a suit and tie and she is somewhat masculine. Now if Ellen was really gay then why would she go for a woman that looks like a man? What's the deal?

Re: question
 

Actually, I am not homosexual. But if you are bothered that no one of EITHER sex is attracted to you, maybe you should start your inquiries closer to home...

LibraSoul, what makes someone think you are homosexual? Is it because we, you and I argue the same facts?

Hell there are 599 Brothers of my Chapter That I love, there are Brothers like Jono who is a Brother that I love!

Would I want to get sexually involved with them no!

Do I want them to still be my close Freinds, YES!

Self Importance is underwhelming!:)

Tom Earp, I was directed it toward shlutzz actually because he said Jono and I were gay. Jono is, but I am not. I am not insecure about my sexuality, but I felt it was more of a personal dig than an honest question.

Not sure what the rest of your post meant, but that is not unusual.