Dear DrPhil,

I was hoping you'd pop in to this one. Thanks!

With Unbridled Adoration,
agzg

Did you read the post that you quoted? He said we've come a long way, but haven't gotten there yet. How does that make him a disgrace?

Tell that to James Byrd's family.

I don't think there's a need to be the most special oppressed group. No one is trying to minimize what other groups have gone through. However, the fact that we still have people alive who felt the direct effects of this plight means that people are going to talk about it more. 1600s =/= 1960s.

Umm...What?

If you want to compare blacks to Native Americans, fine. If you want to compare blacks to the Irish (as did the poster to whom I was responding), you are an order of magnitude off.

This is a shame but I am glad people in this thread finally stopped bullshitting. LOL. Kevin is an illustration of privilege, racism, and the importance of changing high school and college history classes.

Whiteness does not rule the world (aside from power and privilege), white people were not doing the world a favor, and the white diaspora was not the first and only culture and civilization around the world. The TransAtlantic Slave Trade greatly tore apart cultures (different cultures and religions) but it did not completely remove cultures. The white diaspora did not introduce culture, religion, and civilization to ANYONE, not to the various Native American cultures, not to people of the African diaspora, not to people of the Asian diaspora, etc. Black Americans as a collective were stripped of native languages and other things, and introduced to cultural artifacts of the white diaspora and slavery. However, Blacks were not stripped of everything and there are "Black American/African American cultures" (Kevin needs to research the hundreds of books, articles, professional organizations, social organizations, and public service organizations that are illustrations) that both survived in spite of, and are a result of, people of the African diaspora assimilating (in various extents) into whiteness. And those of us who interact with nonwhites in the USA and around the world know that there are far more similarities across the nonwhite disapora than differences--and those similarities are not all remnants of slavery. They are remnants of rich cultures, many of which have existed for centuries.

I think she was moreso declaring "my family didn't own slaves." You know, the cliche' phrase that whites have used for generations.

You are fully aware of this so the following is for the folks who are unfamiliar with this stuff (there is some interesting literature on the formation and social psychology of whiteness including work done by Roediger, Ignatiev, and even The Boston Phoenix's 1997 publication entitled "White Like Me"):

In the 1800s-1900s many Irish hated the idea of slavery and newly immigrated Irish were first considered "white ni**ers" when they first migrated to the United States of America. More specifically, ghettos were still identified through their true meaning (racially homogenous neighborhoods) and newly immigrated populations, including the Irish, tended to live in these neighborhoods until they were able to assimilate into whiteness and make enough money to live elsewhere. Blacks were referred to as "smoked Irish" and the Irish were referred to as "ni**ers turned inside out."
As with other white racial and ethnic groups (ethnic Jews are a more complex story), the Irish used social institutions and racism to prove that they were just like the other whites, should be able to assimilate into whiteness, and should have the resulting political and social privileges. Being Irish and Catholic continued to be one difficulty (as evidenced by labor market struggles, President John F. Kennedy and family, etc.) but the assimilation into whiteness occurred and the privileges that come with it.

Wow, Dr. Phil. No offense, but you are one angry black person. Do you live in a place where you never have to run into white people? Or do you manage to swallow your hatred long enough to interact with them? Just askin.

I see that you're typing a reply. What's taking so long? Googling American history? Thumbing through your thesaurus? lol

Trolling troll is trolling. Sit down while the grown ups are talking.

I'm sorry, did I offend your delicate sensibilities, agzg? I guess I'm just expected to shut up and tow the party line. But I'll keep talking as long as you ridiculous fools keep bellyaching :) (or until I get bored, whichever comes first)

Since this is your second post, I want you to find solace in the fact that, yes, I see you. We see you. Hello.

At least come up with something more entertaining. This troll line is weak.

I'm not a troll. You're just not used to people not jumping all over themselves apologizing for their alleged privilege. You'll get used to it. OR you could just ignore me, you know.

As for you Phil, your non-answer speaks volumes. And maybe someday I too can breathe the rarified air of an 11,000+ poster. I dare to dream :)

BTW, what line of work are you two in that you can sit at the computer all day attempting to trade barbs with an 18 year old? Is the Winn-Dixie that generous with its breaks?

This is kind of fun! Your turn :)

Quoted because some of us find you fun. But, you are not sharp enough to know why we find you fun.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

Talk about overplayed. There is black on white hate crime as well. If only whatshisname could be here to post a new thread every time something resembling it happened. It's all pretty heinous stuff. You can't judge an entire society by what a few redneck thugs decided to do. It's as unreasonable to judge our culture by what happened to James Byrd as it would be for me to judge any other culture by the actions of a few of its miscreants. As I recall, the murderers of James Byrd have been severely punished. One has been put to death. That should actually be an indicator of how far we've come. 50-60 years ago, law enforcement probably wouldn't have touched that case.

Yeah, never mind with that. It was an incomplete thought. To complete it, I would suggest that instead of as a culture, looking towards assimilation, or at least integration, we've seen the creation of holidays like Kwanzaa from whole cloth in order to provide some sort of rigid separate identity. I think there is a separate black American culture or subculture which is more of a culture than a racial thing. You won't see many African immigrants, for example, participating in stereotypical African-American culture.

Why would an immigrant from, say, Eritrea take on African-American traditions? The country has its own cultural identity.