Originally Posted by *winter* (Post 2095806)

So...I've thought about it, and I've come to 2 conclusions:

1) I guess I assume people in general are always more pleasant in the south and more confrontational in the north, which leads to point 2...

2) I have a very skewed world view!

As for the entire issue of what Northerners think of the CF and why...pondering this on the way home from work...where I'm passed by a lifted old Ford truck- giant tires, gun rack, swerving in and out of lanes aggressively- and, you guessed it- sporting a CF decorative plate! THIS is the image we come to associate with those who use the flag. Thing is, growing up in a city, I never really saw CFs until I went awayto college. And then, they were never flying proud in front of a nicely manicured split level ranch...but posted next to signs like "Insured by Smith & Wesson"'and "Redneck and Proud!". Really...around here, that is the typical CF fan. So we tend to associate them with such folks.

After living in the South in the military, and working with a diverse group of people, I've come to understand the fact that it's seen differently in the south. Normal people fly it as a symbol of their heritage.

It's just (and sadly, too) gotten a terrible rap around here due to all those who use it simply as a form of showing pride in the wrong things. It also intimidates minorities because of that association. Whenever I do field visits with other staff members, the non white ones start to get nervous when they spot a few in the country. Which brings me to my next point- these jokers give ALL rural people a bad name- many of the non-white field staff members were very unsure about visiting my county field area because of all the heresy that "those people are racist." when I got them out and meeting people, they realized what everyone does- the majority of small town PA people are not imbred hateful people, but just normal folks who have problems and are glad to accept some assistance with them, regardless of the race of the engineer.

People like that just screw it up for everyone.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2095797)

2. The relative few white people who do live in historically and predominantly Black neighborhoods have their Black Card Cliff Notes and have a general idea what to do and what not to do.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2095708)

The thing is, as Dr. Phil says, many of us have explained it so many times in so many threads (and elsewhere in life), that we literally grow weary of it. I'm sorry if it comes across as a cop-out, but there it is.

As for the "mentality" comment, what you said was:
Sorry, but that doesn't sound at all to me like someone who really wants to understand. If it is an expression of wanting to understand, it's worded in a very loaded way -- less "help me understand" and more "defend your obviously wrong actions!" Might as well ask if we're still beating our wives as well.

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2095778)

Do people in the North honestly believe that when people in the South fly the rebel flag, they're doing so because they're racist/pleased with the results of slavery/trying to reverse the outcome of the Civil War? Honest question. Because if you HONESTLY think that's why it's flown down here, then shame on you for being so ignorant about the South.

Originally Posted by *winter* (Post 2095806)

As for the entire issue of what Northerners think of the CF and why...pondering this on the way home from work...where I'm passed by a lifted old Ford truck- giant tires, gun rack, swerving in and out of lanes aggressively- and, you guessed it- sporting a CF decorative plate! THIS is the image we come to associate with those who use the flag.
...

It's just (and sadly, too) gotten a terrible rap around here due to all those who use it simply as a form of showing pride in the wrong things. It also intimidates minorities because of that association.

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2095899)

I'm actually surprised at how negatively it's viewed in the North.

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2095899)

I haven't spoken to anyone about this specifically, but I feel like if they took offense to it, something would at least be said about that. And I have never in my life heard of there being an issue with the flag being flown locally. Kids at my high school would fly them behind their pick-up trucks and the black students didn't seem to mind, they were friends.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2095908)

:) Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2095911)

They brought it up right after lunch.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2095908)

:) Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy. Yet, there is a general understanding of what the Confederacy symbolizes to the average person of the African Diaspora (not just Black Americans), agree or disagree.

Two things have always and will always be the case: "some of my bestfriends are Black" and "the Black people I know don't seem to mind" have been cliche' for generations. One thing to remember is that with the structure of segregation and social exclusion across the country (including the north), the average person remains more likely to express discontent over something with those within their racial and ethnic group. Why? For one, it tends to require much less explanation to those who don't understand and don't get it. There are instances where people will share heartfelt opinions and issues to people outside of their racial and ethnic group. But, that is a very careful process because even the best interracial friendships can be made uncomfortable by such discussions. That is why you will hear people (predominantly white people) say things like "I don't see you as Black, you're just Lauren" or "we come together and don't see race." Therefore, many racial and ethnic minorities who have some sense of the larger implications of many things will nod their heads, take mental notes, and save the in depth discussion for nonwhites.

If I had a dollar for everytime a white person said or did something that I considered racially offensive, rooted in privilege and power dynamics, and/or displayed racialized symbols that can be interpreted in different ways. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to ignore these things as to not lose a professional opportunity, be branded as the "angry Black woman," or have the police knocking at my door.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2095912)

:mad: I can never trust YOU PEOPLE to take good minutes.

*throwing a fried chitterling at the screen*

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2095913)

Understandable. But like I can say, "In the North, we generally feel this way because of this, that and the other thing," I thought someone might be able to answer my question for me. But I can see how the two are different for the reasons you've stated.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2095913)

However, if minorities as a whole felt a certain way and spoke openly about something they were against, it's not exactly like it would be a new concept. I just didn't know if that was the case. Again, part of my lack of Southern knowledge :p

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2095917)

I do not know what this paragraph means.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2095918)

In other words, if there was any kind of "outrage" over the flag being flown, I wouldn't know... hence why the question was asked.