True story.

The mystery continues

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/23...alee-holloway/

Rest in peace to whomever's jawbone that is. :( Perhaps that could lead to the end of a cold case.

This isn't going to help Aruba win any "Safest Island For High School Graduates" awards.

Personally, I'm glad her mother is still fighting for her, and I always keep in mind that for those that do not have a child missing that will probably never, ever be found, there is no possible way to come close to understanding how she feels. (Which also goes for her younger siblings, father, and step mother)

I can't help in a way being glad it's not her on some level, but on the other hand I know there's no way she's alive, so logically, it would be better if they find something. I really don't think they ever will, though.

And to trashtalk his brother -- the same brother he previously said doesn't "understand the meaning of 'a gentlemen [sic] and a man of honor.'"

I'm just happy he posted a picture of me where my tail covers the part he's really embarrassed by.

LOL.

Reading through the threads, and how some of you responded to Alumiyum, it's embarrassing that you would associate yourselves with the Greek community. This entire thread has been about how "if she is so smart, why would she go off with some guys?" and how pretty little white girl gets attention. HELLO!? WHO CARES? The point is some normal, incredibly nice girl died in an otherwise paradise location and everyone, people who didn't know her included, have the right to care about her story hour-by-hour. I can't believe some of you are so heartless that you say things like how it's a moral lesson for others. Honestly, I find that most of the people on this website are clearly bored and unhappy. Most of the posts are negative, pompous, or sarcastic. You're supposed to be leaders in the community - or at least my initiation told us to be - and that does not include the mockery of an innocent girls death.

Please shut the hell up.

Awww, you beat me to it.

It's because I'm bored and unhappy, with way too much time on my hands.

!

"Real cool" as opposed to "fake cool," eh?

Look -- this thread has been around for 5 years. If you'd actually read it, you'd see people saying "Wow, this is terrible, BUT _____." You can only be sympathetic for so long (considering most of us don't know her). At some point this DISCUSSION BOARD must become a vehicle for DISCUSSION.

And the whole "you should be ashamed to be Greek!" tirade is played. If you had been Greek for longer than a year (judging by the '09), you'd realize that being a part of an organization doesn't make you a drone who's incapable of engaging in conversations, discussions, or arguments.

So, again -- please shut the hell up.

Honestly, it isn't like that at all. I've read this thread on and off since it started and although people have expressed frustration at a perceived abundance of media attention when someone like Natalee disappears versus when someone of less means disappears, no one wishes ill will toward her. I can't imagine anyone would argue, even posters who doubted the wisdom of Natalee going off with The Sociopath, that it is a terrible tragedy.

That said, I am sad that it wasn't Natalee's jawbone that was found. Partly because that means that there is yet another young woman out there who is unaccounted for and partly because I want her poor mother to have closure. What an unimaginable burden it must be to wake up every morning and know your child is missing and most likely dead, but you don't know for sure.

DeltaZeta09 isn't smart enough to grasp anything in this thread so explaining this thread to her is a waste. She claims to have read it and her brain could only come up with what she typed.

Be nice, or no Panera for you!

Low blow. Low blow. :eek:

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't complaining about the privilege certain groups get and the injustice that is generated make one a leader in the community? Yes it's sad what happened to her, but she went missing 5 years ago. The fact that there is still so much media coverage is what is making people angry.

The frustration can sometimes by interpreted differently, if people don't separate it from Natalee. (Frustrating at the system/media/unfairness of it all vs. frustration at her/her family). I think just about everyone does separate the issue from her, it just gets misunderstood.

No, Natalee didn't deserve this, but neither does anyone else who ends up in the hands of someone like Joran. It is IMO important to remember that this could have happened to any girl who left with him that night, and to remember that no matter how safe your surroundings seem, there ARE bad people out there. Her mother points out in her seminars how important it is to pay attention to your surroundings and to use the "buddy system". Lots of people end up in similar situations and are lucky enough to come out with nothing but a few good stories, but it's not worth the risk.

Natalie Holloway's death was a tragedy.

This thread is an abortion.

Thankfully, many of us are pro-choice.

It's definitely the board's right to choose.

As someone from Birmingham I will say that so many people are tired of the media coverage of this story. We wish for closure for her family but to have the wound opened up every few months is annoying to me.

You complain about how people that don't know here are saying this and that yet you didn't know her but claim that she is "normal, incredibly nice girl". How do you know this? She could have been whooping Joran's ass for whatever reason and he pushed back. NO ONE KNOWS; and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. To put it harshly I don't care. It doesn't affect me at all. I just hope others learn from this story.

Now...when did being Greek mean that you can't have an opinion on issues?

Yep and even typing "normal, incredibly nice girl" has so many connotations that take us back to my very first post on victimology. What's "normal" and whose opinion of "incredibly nice" matters when it comes to garnering attention and sympathy for some victims over others.

But again, the issue should (well, ok IMO) be made separate from Natalee and her family, as she was a victim, and they (again IMO, since I do not know them) have just done what they could to keep her from being forgotten. And, of course, she is by no means the only example of a media obsession when a pretty young white girl goes missing. (Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsay, Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, etc. come to mind). ETA: I think it has a lot to do with "damsel in distress"...especially for the two who were abducted/murdered in childhood and Laci Peterson as she was pregnant...we want to protect them and get caught up in the stories, because they seem helpless or innocent.

Just a point, but that's not a general consensus for the residents of Birmingham. Also, she was 5'4" and 110 pounds, while Joran is well over 6 feet, 6'3" IIRC and obviously was much heavier and stronger than she. There's no way she ever came close to "whooping his ass". IMO, the story he told on hidden camera about her seizing and him throwing her in the ocean with the help of a friend (even though he wasn't SURE she was dead) is the closest to the truth.

I don't think anyone is faulting her family for continuing the search. The point is that the media is focusing on her because she was a pretty young white girl.

I'm sure this was just an example. The point is that we don't know what happened.

No, that's not how such discussions work. Everyone has already agreed that what happened to Holloway is tragic and sad. My posts will not be prefaced with that which has been stated over and over again.

Yes, as many readers have already figured out, this topic is a general topic in which Holloway is used as one of the many examples of a larger point.

It might be how it works for you. The side discussion on "Missing White Girl Syndrome" isn't only about "AL Teen Missing in Aruba", which is actually the subject of this thread. This thread is not general. The side conversations certainly sometimes are, as happens in most all threads. You might talk in general terms in this thread, and I do not. Which is perfectly fine.

Right, I just think sometimes the line gets blurred. And I was only pointing out that particular example is ridiculous. We don't know for sure what happened (and probably never will), but there are a lot of things that point towards a logical/educated guess.

And for many others who engage in such discussions.

If you don't want to engage in this specific discussion, you can exit stage left, as I thought you were doing when KSig RC was typing to you. ;)

I can also post my own thoughts, just as I thought we were all allowed to do.;) You can, of course, ignore them if they are irrelevant to your own posts. I was not exiting the entire thread regarding KSig, I was simply disgusted by his "jokes" and had no wish to have anything to do with him.

Anyway, it's interesting because this thread is almost 6 years old and despite how this thread began with a discussion of victim precipitation, I resisted temptation and waited almost 6 years to post. Yet, 6 years is not enough time for some people to be able to discuss the issues that are embedded in stories such as Holloway's. That is very interesting and speaks volumes beyond victim sympathy.

And what does it speak of?

Aside from myself (as I have already given the reason that I am not objective), who else? I've not read anything particularly emotional or subjective in a while in this thread.

Since Alumiyum keeps wanting to type to me....

It speaks on what some of us have been talking about for the past few pages. And, as I keep telling Alumiyum, this discussion isn't about her. It is a general observation. Surely she notices that she is not the only person who has expressed certain views in the past 5 or so pages. The same applies to such discussions outside of Greekchat (some of us have those, as well). Some people are very sensitive about any type of Holloway discussion that goes beyond reminding everyone of how tragic this is because she was "normal, pretty, nice, had a bright future ahead of her...."

I excepted myself since I know that in regards to this thread I have not been objective and therefore did not want to be included in the example/elaboration. I was asking for an elaboration on what it "speaks" to. I have not, in fact, noticed a trend towards people feeling somehow connected to the case in this thread, other than the expected "I feel sorry for her family".

You are correct. It is not about me. It never has been, so you can really stop repeating yourself. I'll be glad to keep take that job over and repeat:It. Is. Not. About. Me. I use "I" so that I do not run the risk of speaking for others.

The bold shows that you're missing the point. This discussion isn't exclusive to those posting in this thread.

Obviously, I realize that. However were it a strong trend, surely it would be present here, too.

Quite frankly, no one can take it out on Natalie anymore. She is dead. Her family is not reading this and even if people were trying to blame her it would be stupid because she is deceased and either no longer exists or has more important things to be concerned with.

Many threads on GC deviate from the original topic within hours of posting much less 5 freaking years. The general topics are usually far more interesting and relevant anyway.

Suffice to say no one thinks it was NH's fault that she was a cute missing white girl and got all the attention. But pointing out the sociological reasons doesn't make us callous, just distant.

This holier-than-thou "You are all embarrasments to the Greek community" tirade never comes off well, especially when it comes from a newbie who obviously hasn't read the thread carefully.