Yep. And it would've been a lose-lose situation for him. The same people attacking him now for not signing her over to her family would be attacking him for giving her up and giving up their marriage vows and breaking her trust and abadoning her. They would've said, oh, what a selfish shithead, he doesn't care about her or their marriage vows ("in sickness or in health, 'til death do us part"), all he cares about is himself..
Funny that many of the people who talk about family values all the time would advocate a divorce and a clear dissent from the marriage vows.

As sad as it is that she has passed away, can we PLEASE let the family (parents, brothers, sisters AND husband) mourn in peace.

Ok?? This man is getting death threats for goodness sake! I'm not going through that for someone I don't give a damn about, who would?

It amazes me that Bush is praised for standing by his convictions(even if he's wrong) yet Michael is slammed for standing by his.

You know what touched me? Fox News said that there's only 40,000 left from that inheritance Michael got and he has it in a trust fund, he only touches it to spend it on little things like getting Terri a haircut, that just touched me for some reason. :)

This man put his life on the line. He turned down million dollar offers to relinquish control over Terri. He allowed himself to get slandered by the media. He probably can't ever go out alone again in public for fear that some nutjob will try to kill him. He is willing to let Terri have an autopsy to prove there is no foul play. He has put himself through unbelievable mental and physical anguish trying to fulfill his wife's wishes. Yet, people say he is a horrible person who doesn't love Terri. I can't think of a single person on this planet that would put themselves through Hell and back again in a situation like this if they didn't love their spouse.

He didn't divorce her and give the control to her parents because he loves Terri. He might have a new woman and children but that doesn't mean he doesn't still love Terri. There are millions of people who get remarried after the death of their spouse. It doesn't mean that they didn't love their late spouse; the widow just wanted to get on with their lives and find happiness again. If I were to pass on, I would hope that my boyfriend would find someone else to make him happy instead of being miserable for the rest of his life. In Michael's eyes, Terri had been dead since 1990. He still has many years left. Why shouldn't he try to find happiness again?

I don't think the media frequents this board very much, and I don't think that they'd listen. :)

I think it's a very interesting and important topic to talk about and discussion among people I know.

However, I don't agree with the media obsession and intrusion into the lives of those involved- including following the coroner's vehicle with a helicopter or whatnot. I do think that the family has a right to privacy there.

BUT, her parents brought the media attention upon themselves and were essentially media whores for their cause. I do NOT want to hear them ever cry for the media to leave them alone. They didn't care about pimping out their cause or intruding into the lives of others involved, such as Terri's husband and his girlfriend.

There's no reason why it can't continue to be discussed.

Agreed

I Agree

Did anyone just see the conference with Michael's lawyer? He confirmed that Michael had a room not too far from Terri's and that's why we didn't see him go back and forth like her family, wow. :(

Very well said, ZTAngel.

I totally agree with what you said about the parents. According to what my mother heard on one news station...it was Terri's parents who encouraged him to move on with his life. I don't remember EVER seeing him on the TV, talk shows etc.

I know it is going to be discussed for a long time. I am sure there are legislatures all across the country looking at their laws to make sure this doesn't happen in their state. I guess a big part of me just feels like the family now needs the time to mourn her. Not listen to more people debate about the decisions.

ZTAngel....loved the post.

I know I just posetd, but my mom sent me an email yesterday. It is sarcastic, but I think it nailed things right on the head....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Living will is the best revenge

By ROBERT FRIEDMAN, Perspective Editor

Published March 27, 2005
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Like many of you, I have been compelled by recent events to prepare a more detailed advance directive dealing with end-of-life issues. Here's what mine says:


* In the event I lapse into a persistent vegetative state, I want medical authorities to resort to extraordinary means to prolong my hellish semiexistence. Fifteen years wouldn't be long enough for me.

* I want my wife and my parents to compound their misery by engaging in a bitter and protracted feud that depletes their emotions and their bank accounts.

* I want my wife to ruin the rest of her life by maintaining an interminable vigil at my bedside. I'd be really jealous if she waited less than a decade to start dating again or otherwise rebuilding a semblance of a normal life.

* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around the country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same transient emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that little girl who got stuck in a well.

* I want those crackpots to spread vicious lies about my wife.

* I want to be placed in a hospice where protesters can gather to bring further grief and disruption to the lives of dozens of dying patients and families whose stories are sadder than my own.

* I want the people who attach themselves to my case because of their deep devotion to the sanctity of life to make death threats against any judges, elected officials or health care professionals who disagree with them.

* I want the medical geniuses and philosopher kings who populate the Florida Legislature to ignore me for more than a decade and then turn my case into a forum for weeks of politically calculated bloviation.

* I want total strangers - oily politicians, maudlin news anchors, ersatz friars and all other hangers-on - to start calling me "Bobby," as if they had known me since childhood.

* I'm not insisting on this as part of my directive, but it would be nice if Congress passed a "Bobby's Law" that applied only to me and ignored the medical needs of tens of millions of other Americans without adequate health coverage.

* Even if the "Bobby's Law" idea doesn't work out, I want Congress - especially all those self-described conservatives who claim to believe in "less government and more freedom" - to trample on the decisions of doctors, judges and other experts who actually know something about my
case. And I want members of Congress to launch into an extended debate that gives them another excuse to avoid pesky issues such as national security and the economy.

* In particular, I want House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to use my case as an opportunity to divert the country's attention from the mounting political and legal troubles stemming from his slimy misbehavior.

* And I want Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to make a mockery of his Harvard medical degree by misrepresenting the details of my case in ways that might give a boost to his 2008 presidential campaign.

* I want Frist and the rest of the world to judge my medical condition on the basis of a snippet of dated and demeaning videotape that should have remained private.

* Because I think I would retain my sense of humor even in a persistent vegetative state, I'd want President Bush - the same guy who publicly mocked Karla Faye Tucker when signing off on her death warrant as governor of Texas - to claim he was intervening in my case because it is always best "to err on the side of life."

* I want the state Department of Children and Families to step in at the last moment to take responsibility for my well-being, because nothing bad could ever happen to anyone under DCF's care.

* And because Gov. Jeb Bush is the smartest and most righteous human being on the face of the Earth, I want any and all of the aforementioned directives to be disregarded if the governor happens to disagree with them. If he says he knows what's best for me, I won't be in any position to argue.


> Robert Friedman is editor of Perspective. He can be reached at friedman@sptimes.com

> [Last modified March 27, 2005, 00:34:19]

wasn't sure if this should go in entertainment or news, but I thought everyone would like to see this...

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

The first time I saw that I laughed nonstop for at least 10 minutes.

I'd like to say that despite being a devout catholic, I think they should've killed the bitch earlier. People like her put a strain on our health care system.

you're an idiot.

for real.

Just shut up. You're a total idiot cashmoney.

THE GUY IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS PICTURE ROCKS

http://www.horrorshowproductions.com/schaivo2.jpg

ETA: just saw moe.ron posted it a page ago. :-(

ROFL

Ok I laughed. I'm so going to hell.

Read the comments, if you can. For some reason they crashed my browser.

There was a comment from the Pope. LOLZ.

OMFG, that guy looks exactly like this guy I know named "cookie"! He's a fat lard ass and does stupid shit like that all the time. Unfuckingbelievable!!

Courts May Feel Schiavo Impact

"WASHINGTON - For all the attention her case has brought to the difficult issues of life and the end of life, the first legacy of Terri Schiavo may arise in the U.S. Capitol, by providing new momentum for Republican attempts to push the federal judiciary to the right.

Conservative activists and members of Congress believe that state and federal courts essentially ignored the law Congress passed on her behalf last month.

The case has brought national attention to the favorite conservative cause of reining in the judiciary, as well as to the Republican push in the Senate to overcome Democratic opposition and install more conservatives on the federal bench.

"I think the Schiavo case dramatized the need to do something to restrain the judiciary," said Richard Lessner, executive director of the American Conservative Union in Washington.

"So when we get to the coming battles over judicial nominees in the Senate, perhaps the public will be somewhat more engaged, in realizing what's at stake. In this case, literally life and death."

Schiavo's death Thursday came as senators prepared to address the most contentious issue brewing on Capitol Hill: whether Republican leaders will change a long-standing Senate rule that requires 60 votes to confirm a presidential nominee to the federal courts.

Republicans are threatening to change the rules so that judges could be confirmed with a simple majority, or 51 votes. Republicans hold 55 of the Senate's 100 seats.

Those who support the change call it the "constitutional option," because they contend that filibustering Democrats have overstepped the Senate's constitutional duty to "advise and consent" on judicial nominees.

Democrats call it the "nuclear option," because it would break the long-standing Senate tradition, unlike in the House, of allowing the minority to retain some measure of control.

Both sides acknowledge the Schiavo case has inflamed passions, because state and federal courts did not make the rulings anticipated by lawmakers who wrote the bill allowing federal review of her case.

"The lasting dispute isn't going to be between Terri's parents and her estranged husband. It's going to be between the branches of government," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council."

---

The rest of the article can be found at the link posted above.

*bump*

Terri's autopsy has been released.

Schiavo autopsy finds no sign of trauma

By MITCH STACY
Associated Press Writer

LARGO, Fla. (AP) -- An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused.

But what caused her collapse 15 years remained a mystery. The autopsy and post-mortem investigation found no proof that she had an eating disorder, as was suspected at the time, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin said.

...

Thogmartin also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.

She died from dehydration, Thogmartin said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

He also said she was blind, because the "vision centers of her brain were dead."

...

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain," he said. "This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

...

-----

The rest can be found at the link above. Editing and emphasis mine.

Hmmmm....
I suppose that the some of our wonderful senators who are in the medical field will find some way to discredit this autopsy.

Well I hope EVERYONE can let her rest in peace now.

ETA: ok, hold up. I'll be the first to say that I am not a medical examiner, but this article on yahoo is interesting. If she did not have an eating disorder (per the autopsy) nor did a heart attack cause her to become in this state (again, per the autopsy) then I wonder how she became in this state? And can you tell 15 plus years later if someone did have an eating disorder? :confused:

Schiavo Autopsy Shows Massive Brain Damage

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer
23 minutes ago

LARGO, Fla. - An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused.

But what caused her collapse 15 years ago remained a mystery. The autopsy and post-mortem investigation found no proof that she had an eating disorder, as was suspected at the time, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin said.

Read The Rest Here

Jinx.........

Would have been quite the conundrum for the jesus folx if they woudl have been able to say she wouldda benfeited from stem cell therapy.

One of these days these idiots are gonna realize how stupid they look being pro-life and pro-death penalty at the same time. For them, either life is sacred or it isnt.

/hijack

guess the autopsy debunks that crap her parents were saying that she was looking at them and all lit up when they walked into the room.

Enjoying that Bill Frist looks life a bigger tool, now. Cause ya know he made that 'diagnosis' that she coudl recover and stuff.

Is his name "Cookie", because as the saying goes, "You are what you eat"?

You took the words right out of my mouth. I didn't beleive the video of her following the balloon. If you watched close enough, you could tell whoever was holding the balloon would move it when she moved. Not the other way around.

Please, let this be a lesson to everyone who fought so hard to keep her alive. IMHO, there was no quality of life. I (PERSONALLY) would have wanted my loved ones to let me go.


--> Please, don't flame me. I am just stating my opinion. I work in the medical field. I have seen cases like this WAY too many times.

The article I read on CNN even said that her brain was significantly smaller than Karen Quinlan's was at the time of her death (Karen was taken off life support, began to breathe on her own but was in a persistent vegetative state for 10 years before she died, for those who are too young to remember that case). They said Karen's was 875 grams.

Jeb Bush was quoted in that article too:

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who tried to intervene on the Schindlers' behalf, said in a written statement Wednesday that "Terri's life and her death remind us all that life is so fragile and must be valued."

"We will continue to strive to protect our most vulnerable citizens. All innocent human life is precious and government has a duty to protect the weak, disabled and vulnerable," he wrote. "Our thoughts and prayers remain with the Schindler family during this most difficult time."

And, the Schindler family attorney: "Their report shows what we have said -- that Terri was not terminal," said the Schindlers' attorney, David Gibbs. "Terri Schiavo was not in an end-of-life situation. The decision was made to end her life, and we believe it was done in a barbaric manner."

Ultimately, I don't think you can change the minds of people like that, no matter what the scientific evidence says.

Dee

Did anyone notice also that every picture and video that was shown was from 2001 and before? Through the whole battle I never saw a picture or a video dated 2004 or 2005. In 2001 she may have still been able to move her head/eyes/whatever...but probably not 4 years later. Not as much atrophy as she had.

The parents worked hard to build a case on old information...at least in the public eye. Who knows what the judges saw.

In any case, I feel for the parents. I'm sure it's so very very hard to let a child go so young, especially when people suspect an eating disorder and you constantly have in the back of your head "I should have done something...I should have done something." Sometimes there's just nothing else to do...it's really hard to accept that helplessness.

Regarding the cause of her collapse, there's no way they'd be able to figure that out this late in the game. I don't think they would be able to diagnose an eating disorder on her now...seems like the prudent thing to do would be to review her ER records. On the other hand, sometimes shit happens and people drop dead without warning or apparent cause.

I hope everyone involved can find some peace.

PsychTau

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/16...cnn_topstories


Schiavo's parents not swayed by autopsy results

Thursday, June 16, 2005

LARGO, Florida (AP) -- An autopsy that found Terri Schiavo suffered from severe and irreversible brain-damage has done nothing to sway her parents' position that she deserved to live and may have gotten better with therapy.

The long-awaited report Wednesday found Schiavo's brain had shrunk to about half the normal size for a woman her age when she died March 31 after her feeding tube was disconnected. (Full story)

The autopsy also determined she was blind.

Bob and Mary Schindler disputed the results, insisting their daughter interacted with them and tried to speak. Their attorney said the family plans to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and may take some unspecified legal action.

"We knew all along that Terri was profoundly brain damaged," said Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler. "We simply wanted to bring her home and care for her. It all goes back to this quality of life."

The findings vindicated Schiavo's husband in his long and vitriolic battle with his in-laws that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country. Michael Schiavo and court-appointed doctors have said she had no hope of recovery. She died at age 41.

The autopsy also found no evidence that Terri Schiavo was strangled or otherwise abused before her sudden 1990 collapse -- countering allegations by the Schindlers that she was abused by her husband.

Yet medical examiners could not say for certain what caused the collapse, long thought to have been brought on by an eating disorder.

George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, said the findings back up their contentions made "for years and years" that Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery. He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain.

"Mr. Schiavo has received so much criticism throughout this case that I'm certain there's a part of him that was pleased to hear these results and the hard science behind them," Felos said.

The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years, battling to the end with conservatives at their side.

The autopsy counters a widely seen videotape the Schindlers released of Schiavo in her hospice bed. Schiavo appeared to turn toward her mother's voice and smile. She moaned and laughed. Her head moved up and down and she seemed to follow the progress of a brightly colored Mickey Mouse balloon.

Her parents said that showed she was aware of her surroundings, but doctors said Schiavo's reactions were automatic responses and not evidence of thought or consciousness.

"There's nothing in her autopsy report that is inconsistent with a persistent vegetative state," said Dr. Stephen J. Nelson, a medical examiner who assisted in the neurological portion of the autopsy.

Cause of death was dehydration from removal of the feeding tube, but the underlying reason for her brain damage was officially listed as "undetermined."

The autopsy included 274 external and internal body images and an exhaustive review of Schiavo's medical records, police reports and social services agency records.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin said the autopsy produced no conclusion on what triggered the temporary heart stoppage that caused her collapse and brain damage. He said there was no evidence of drug use, though he cautioned that Schiavo was not tested in 1990 for every conceivable substance that could have been in her blood.

He said there was no proof she suffered from an eating disorder such as bulimia, which can disrupt the body chemistry with lethal effect. The main piece of evidence cited for an eating disorder -- the low levels of potassium in her blood in 1990 -- could have been caused by the emergency treatment she received at the time, Thogmartin said.

While she had lost more than 100 pounds since high school, Schiavo never confessed to an eating disorder, she did not take diet pills and no one had witnessed her purging food, the medical examiner said.

He discounted the possibility that she had overdosed on caffeine from drinking large amounts of tea in an effort to keep her weight down.

In addition, the autopsy found no traces of morphine in her system at her death, although she had been given two doses in the days before she died. The Schindlers had contended that morphine might have been used to speed their daughter's death.

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the autopsy did nothing to change President Bush's position that Schiavo's feeding tube should not have been disconnected. He had signed a bill, rushed through by Congress in March, that was a last-ditch effort to restore her feeding tube.

Experts said that the autopsy demonstrates how difficult it is for people to recover from severe brain damage.

"People should understand that sometimes, for known or unknown reasons, individuals sustain massive brain injury that for which healing is not possible," said Dr. Karen Weidenheim, the chief of neuropathology at Montefiore Medical Center in New York. "Everything that could have been done was done for this lady for 15 years, and this case is very tragic."

Her parents didn't believe reality?

In other news: water is wet

I hope Michael Schiavo sues the Schindlers for libel and slander.

Autopsy results and her parents denial of it proves they have moved further from reality, truely DIDNT have Terri's best interests at heart and were beholden to the zealots (who were bankrolling them).

Love is understandable, but at this point they are denying science and standing there like a 3 year old with fingers in their ears saying "You cant make me listen!!!"

They probably also believe that the Earth is still the center of the universe.

Further proof that Jeb is an idiot:

Gov. Bush Wants Investigation into Schiavo 911 Call

Friday, June 17, 2005 Posted: 11:58 AM EDT (1558 GMT)

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

It looks like Gov. Bush is pandering to the extreme right.

Don't they have other things to worry about in Florida?