Just wondering, on what standards do you judge these sororities (social, service, academics, leadership, how much money they have in the chapter account, etc etc)?

You view everyone EXCEPT your chapter on your campus as "lower tier". Why can't you just let people enjoy their experience in their GLO without commenting on how "inferior" they are to you?

You just like to post stuff to make people angry and get a reaction out of them. Don't you have to do downstairs and annoy your mom now? Troll.

XiDelt, no I don't. I don't even think my fraternity is the best on campus. We have great greek life, and the majority of the GLO's are quite good.

Opi, how do I judge the sororities? Hmm. Well, obviously ones packed with good looking girls are pretty popular. I think for the guy's interpretation of "ranking" it probably consists of looks, class of the girls, and how fun they are. I think for the girls, it is class first, with them considering looks, academics and involvement as well. Also, other factors include how exclusive they are and whether they have a long history of being a strong chapter.

Well it certainly isn't how many community service hours they completed the previous semester.

If being straight foward and honest makes you angry, I'm sorry, maybe I should be a bit more PC for you. I don't think I ever resorted to things such as name calling, sorry if I hit a softspot. A forum such as this is a good place to get away from the everyday BS political correctness and speak from the hip, so to say.

PS. I'm 23 and haven't lived with "mom" since 18.

It's a matter of perspective. If you're polling IFC/NPC Greeks (who joined their orgs for very different reasons than non-IFC/NPC), I'm not surprised they would see another organization as weak. But, from outside these councils, the other orgs might be considering the IFC/NPC orgs as weak. What are you basing your strong/weak, best/worst classifications on?

ETA: Woops, I see Opi asked the same question!

I think it's safe to say when most people think greek, they are thinking of IFC/NPC traditional chapters, so therefore polling would be similar.

I'm saying this only for my school, although I think SEC type schools would be similar. The polling thing was a comment about another NPC group. As for MC groups and service groups, honestly, I think the large majority of greeks on my campus couldnt name a single one. They just really don't have any kind of influence on campus, especially considering the weight that IFC and NPC groups carry.

So, as far as sororities, you're concerned with how popular the girls are in college as a primary factor? College constitutes a tiny percentage of a person's life. I'd be more concerned with what happens in the lifetime of the member after joining. Popularity was the LEAST of my concerns in college. I joined Theta Nu Xi after college for a number of reasons including networking and the joy of working alongside women of a similar mind toward goals that matter to me.

That is absolutely untrue. People think of the types of orgs they've been exposed to. Well...I suppose since whites comprise the largest number of people who attend college and many whites join IFC/NPC orgs, perhaps you're right to an extent.

Jeni, I didn't really say anything about popularity. Someone asked me how sororities are judged, and I said that naturally, the ones with good looking girls are highly thought of. You've also got to remember, this is the south. We don't have many minorities, and the girls going through rush often look more like beauty pagent contestants than college students.

I think this is where Preciousjeni thinks you were talking about popularity.

I don't know how "natural" it is. I went to UGA and I'm from Georgia with deep roots. I'm aware of the beauty pageant PNMs. :) But they want things in a sorority that don't hold any interest for me at all. BTW, I don't understand your "don't have many minorities" comment. Did you mean your fraternity or southern universities? If you mean southern universities, you might need to open your eyes.

I think its pretty true. I mean for the most part (obviously there are exceptions), the prettiest, wealthiest girls from the best families generally arent interested in MC or service groups. They usually want the best, most popular sorority on campus. Like I said, there are exceptions, but to deny that it is the common truth, is just unrealistic. About minority populations, I think it is fairly low for the big southern universities, I just checked UT, Auburn and UGA, all are 86 percent white. Meanwhile of Michigan, Ohio State, UCLA, Wisconsin, NYU, Syracuse and Oregon, none were above 85, and most were below 70. I know this isn't a good study, but this is just what I pulled up in a couple minutes, I couldnt find a national average for universities.

Gee, shinerbock, since you're so fratty and all, don't you have better things to do than post on this way-too-PC message board—say, eat crawdads, cousin-fuck, and masturbate?

Jackass. :)

:eek:

I know I'm in the minority but I honestly don't have problem with what shinerbock is saying. I don't agree but I find it refreshing that someone is actually being honest. That is how he sees the world and I'm sure there are A LOT of men in the IFC that feel the same way. I'm not surprised that he thinks women in MGLOs are not attractive. He's probably not attracted to non-white women which is fine. I'm sure there are not a mass number of black and latina women crying themselves to sleep because of it. Also, I'm happy that his fraternity is not trying to break their necks to get a token black man in their org just so they can say they are "diverse." The founders of his fraternity would be HIGHLY disturbed if they knew minorities were being recruited to their organization. He's probably staying truer to his organization's founding principles then some other organizations that claim to be "multicultural" just to gain more members or look PC.

If people did not think like him in the "Greek world," my organization would not exist. He is just proof of why my organization and other MGLOs are needed. I personally could care less if his organization was 100% white as long as they are not denying someone a bid from a minority group that is qualified. Side note: Shinerbock, I would like for you to keep in mind that there are black and hispanic men that would fit into your organization a lot better than they would fit into an organization that was "designed" for them. Just because you are black does not mean you like black people...

I agree with everything you said, except for the last two sentences...together. I like their honesty.

As for the last two sentences, that can be taken as minorities who fit well into non-NPHC or non-MC orgs, don't like other minorities.

Really? A supportive sisterhood, fun, networking (during and post-college), community service opportunities held NO interest for you? :confused:

I think it's a little ignorant to think that every Sounthern, beauty pageant-type PNM is only interested in NPC sorority life to get drunk and meet boys. :rolleyes:

I think he has already made that point. He's also made the point that WHITE NORTHERNERS might not fit in to his CHAPTER either. It's more of his CHAPTER than his GLO.

Okay, that was uncalled for ...

But anyway - if some IFC/NPC chapters and their members have the attitudes expressed by some people in this post, no one can make them change them. They will either change on their own, through their own personal experiences, or they won't - arguments on an online message board aren't going to have much of an effect. And really, it is a chapter's right to select their members any way they see fit - if they don't think someone will fit in because of race, then so be it. LGLOs, BGLOs, AGLOs, etc. all have the same right. Hopefully, people will choose members based on more than something like that. I'm glad my sorors did :D

Jeni never said anything about getting drunk or meeting boys. I think everyone knows you can do that without joining a sorority. That's not the point ... look, I am a Southern white girl. I do "Southern" things, like listen to country music and drink JD and dress kinda preppy. I'm from a "good" area with a "good" family. And yes, I can speak English and I do have proper hygiene, etc., etc. :rolleyes: I didn't even consider going to NPC Rush - didn't interest me at all. When I found out later there were other kinds of sororities, that's when I became interested in joining a sorority. I don't have anything against the NPC groups, but they aren't for me. What I want in a sorority just doesn't line up with that. With OPhiA and with DST, it does. When I first started learning about Delta, it was shocking - it just fit so well with my values. There are different organizations for different people and personalities. No one's insulting anyone else's by choosing a different path - even if it's not the one they "should" have picked.

no actually, it pretty much rocked. :D

Thanks 33, its always good to see the "moderator" condoning classless activity. Can't say I'm surprised....

As to whoever claimed I should be eating crawdads, I'd love to be, but Atlanta isn't really a hotspot for them. Also, my only 2 female cousins are away are Cornell and George Washington, respectively, so they're not really available at the moment. I appreciate your concern about my sex life, but I'm doing fine, no need to worry. As for me being "fratty," I really appreciate that. I'm not quite sure when professional society, dressing like an adult, and traditional values became a bad thing, but no matter, they continue on to your dismay, I'm sure.

As to comments by zchi...I never said girls in MC groups are unattractive, although being honest, many at my school were. You're right, I'm rarely attracted to non-white women, so naturally my perception is different. However, if I were to see a MC group filled with attractive non-white women, I imagine I would notice, beyond my possible personal lack of attraction.

Hey pot, meet kettle. You're one of the most classless people on this website. And I'm not THE moderator, I'm A moderator.

No I'm not. You don't generally see me using profanity or calling people names, nor condoning those who do. I simply say what I believe. I know that honesty is probably quite offensive to your bleeding heart, but I don't see anything wrong with it. I know you probably prefer your little sheltered life as opposed to honest and open debate, but looks like you'll just have to make due.

Way to call me out on the moderator thing. Look out for this one.

Maybe the profanity was out of hand, but the message itself was great.

You have an incredibly low opinion of most of the posters here, and the general vibe here, yet you keep coming back every single day to post. What's your point? Aren't you as cool at fratty as you thought you were?

And it's make DO. DO! DO! DO!! LEARN TO SPELL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

You are correct, its do. However, I think any attempt you make to question my intelligence is laughable, considering the source. When did I say I had a low opinion of people on here? I have a low opinion of you, but that is simply because you're rude, classless, and afraid of unfamiliar ideas. Other than those things, I don't think I'd have a problem with anyone on here. I simply believe differently, and that bothers insecure people like yourself.

I disagree with a lot of what shinerbock has to say but he is generally classy and not vulgar. I do appreciate his honesty.

Shiner, so you know.. mods are only mods in certain areas of the site and are not generally "above" entering a fray.

/I'm a Voltaire kind of person though (even if he didn't actually say it)
//blah blah don't agree with you blah blah defend your right to say it

Amen, SisterGreek.

I'm referring to the NPC sororities that shinerbock was referencing himself. They hold no interest for me. I'm not sure where I made any mention of getting drunk and meeting boys. You're projecting your own assumptions onto me. What I'm talking about is the function and activities of the sororities themselves. That's not something I'm looking for.

IMO use or nonuse of profanity has nothing to do with class - some of the biggest racists/sexists/etc on earth never curse, and I certainly wouldn't call them classy.

You didn't SAY you had a low opinion of people on here, but everything you post boils down to desperate begging for people to say "why yes shinerbock, you're SO right. The South and Southern fraternity chapters are all that matters, anything else is lame and stupid and a wannabe, I'm going to turn in my pin and jump off a bridge now." I have no issue with the fact that you believe differently. I have issue with the fact that you think everyone else should believe the same way. If that wasn't the attitude you meant to put across, you really need to go back and edit the majority of your posts.

Let's all remember that Shinerbock is just saying what he has seen and grown up around. That's the South that he has seen. I personally disagree with him but since I also live in the South and while it's not like that where I live or where I went to school I know it is still like that in some areas. Sad but true. :(

Just a few things I've noticed.

1) If the criteria you are using to label all IFC and NPC groups as "White" or "Historically White" because they were founded at a school during a time when non-whites were not allowed to attend, then talk to me when your group celebrates it's sesquicentennial because until then, you have no valid argument.

2) To look at the statistics of minority representation in IFC/NPC chapters as "this group is <20% non-white, thus it discriminates" is nothing more than manipulating fact to suit your argument. What you should be looking at is a much more complex calculation. Consider this: By race, University of ____ has a minority representation of 40%. At said school, there are 10 IFC chapters, 10 NPC chapters, 10 NPHC sororities, and 10 NPHC fraternities. Each group has a membership of 50 which totals the greek community as 10% of the entire population of the school. (2000 greeks, 20,000 total pop.) For simplicity's sake, lets say all 50 members of all 20 NPHC chapters are black. By those numbers, the minority percantage of greeks is already above the school as a whole even before you take into account the minority percentage of IFC and NPC chapters. So by saying that minorities are under-represented in the greek community because the average minority representation in IFC chapters is only 20% is just plain ignorant.

3) How can anyone define themself with a single characterization? I find this impossible to understand. Likewise, how can you define a fraternity by a single characterization? Did it ever occur to those of you who call IFC groups "white fraternities" that we get offended not because you called us white, but rather that we got offended because you took not only me and my brothers but also every other member of an IFC group and boiled us all down to a single characteristic? My fraternity can be described as nothing but "Theta Chi," and I would ask that you please respect that.

OK, you said you had no reason at all to join the orgs shiner was referring to (which I think we all agree are probably NPC orgs at Southern schools). However you said the above were two reasons you joined your org. I would venture to guess that those two reasons are also on the minds of many NPC PNMs - be they white or non-white, ugly or pretty, Northern or Southern.

I do apologize for putting words in your mouth in reference to beer drinking and boys. So not to cause more confusion, I'd be interested to know what it is those women were looking for in their orgs that you were "not at all" interested in?

First to 33...I favor southern greek life, just as you dislike it. It is preference. Of course I think it is better than every other system. I don't buy into the whole "well I hate that, but we're all equally good" thing. I mean, I went to Auburn, do you think I'm gonna go "well, I hate Alabama, but they're just as good." Obviously not.

Now to everyone else, I appreciate that you guys see what I'm saying. However it gets annoying when people act like, "well he's just going on what he's seen." In spite of what my conservative ideals and southern pride may cause you think, I'm not by any means a sheltered person. I have friends from every walk of life, have traveled all over the country, and both have shown me valuable things. HOWEVER, I simply enjoy my life the way it is. Most of my white southern friends are incredibly intelligent and cultured. So while I appreciate the attempts at understanding where I'm coming from, it does get a little annoying when I get these pats on the head, as if one day I'll experience the big world.

Who are you directing this at? I'm not sure who said anything like what you mention in #1. As for #2, I think it has been established that MCGLO members appreciate that NPC/IFC orgs fill a niche different from ours so that our members are truly at home with us. And, #3, you've got shinerbock in here more than implying that he prefers an all-white chapter. Other than that, I'm not going to get into the "historically white org" argument because it leads to name calling. But, I will say that I don't go around here talking about "white fraternities." Have you seen that phrase used excessively in this thread?

implying that I prefer an all white chapter...

No, I consistantly imply that I prefer a chapter which fits my interests and shares my ideals.