Show this graphic to anyone who says rape isn't a real issue in America http://www.vox.com/2014/12/5/7342489...lence-graphic#

Rolling Stone’s Botched Account of a UVA Gang Rape Does a Disservice to Rape Victims http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/05/ro...b015b03a3dc9e4 via @reason

Rolling Stone’s UVA Rape Story Is Falling Apart and It’s a Damn Shame http://po.st/ex8EJD via @po_st

The lesson of Rolling Stone and UVA: protecting victims means checking their stories http://www.vox.com/2014/12/5/7341973...icle-share-top

I don't think RS rolling back the story is the final curtain on this. The initial story hit a very raw nerve with alumni, students, faculty, parents, and community members throughout Virginia as reports of incidents such as this one have been going on for years. I, myself, heard of parents' concerns based on reports from their offspring well before the RS story.

President Sullivan issued a statement today, as did Attorney General Mark Herring. Investigations will continue.

Excerpted from President Sullivan's statement:

The University of Virginia is aware of today’s reports from the Washington Post and the statement from Rolling Stone magazine.
The University remains first and foremost concerned with the care and support of our students and, especially, any survivor of sexual assault. Our students, their safety, and their wellbeing, remain our top priority.
Over the past two weeks, our community has been more focused than ever on one of the most difficult and critical issues facing higher education today: sexual violence on college campuses. Today’s news must not alter this focus.





http://news.virginia.edu/content/sta...eresa-sullivan


And from Attorney General Mark Herring as posted on FB:



Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring called on Rolling Stone to take steps to correct errors in the story rather than simply issuing a walk-back statement.
"It is deeply troubling that Rolling Stone magazine is now publicly walking away from its central story line in its bombshell report on the University of Virginia without correcting what errors its editors believe were made," Herring said in a statement. "Virginians are now left grasping for the truth, but we must not let that undermine our support for survivors of sexual assault or the momentum for solutions."

What a shit show.

And my guess is it probably is the final curtain. In the sense that nothing will change. It's like Groundhog Day.

This. I guess I'm not understanding why everyone is now assuming that the entire story is false..?

I think this is the real issue here, regardless of whether or not Jackie's story is true:


ETA:

#IStandWithJackie: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ent/?tid+sm_fb

Some of the Twitter posts in the link are exactly what I was thinking. What makes everyone automatically think that the fraternity isn't lying? Rape is traumatic; Jackie even said she couldn't see clearly in the room. Perhaps she couldn't remember the exact number of people who were there?

The fact that Rolling Stone completely backed away from the story is awful. They should have at least explained what had been called into question, instead of implying that Jackie was lying about the whole thing.

Read the Washington Post article. I think someone else linked to it already. They've re-reported the story, sent reporters and fact-checkers to Charlottesville over the last week or so, and did the job that Rolling Stone utterly failed to do. They reported that even Jackie's advocate friends no longer believe her account.

What part of the story do you still think is true?

Here it is:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...bdc_story.html

The RS UVA story is but one part of the investigation picture. And has nothing to do with the more intensive Title IX investigation into UVA along with ten or so other schools where a more intensive investigation has been called for. BEFORE the RS article. The investigation by the Charlottesville PD as well as that which the Attorney General has authorized will continue.

Should Phi Kappa Psi bring a defamation suit, there will also be a discovery process which may or may not bring in witnesses that have not as yet come forward but may have to if they are subpoenaed. The fraternity may well be advised to stay miles away from that.

That there has been a problem at UVA has been known for years and years And is why the RS article was found credible by the community in the first place.

Hopefully something beneficial and constructive will come of this. Including restitution to any and all who have been defamed. But also of enhanced security for students on campus. The issue of illegal underage drinking at UVA is also getting a careful look. I imagine that a bill will be introduced in the VA General Assembly when it convenes to remove adjudication of serious rape allegations from colleges and universities. Only time will tell how all of this will play out and what changes will be put into place.

Yes, I read it.

Oh, well if the fraternity says that then it must be true...

And they couldn't just be covering their butts to not sound like callous a-holes?

Maybe Jackie thought he was a member of Phi Kappa Psi, but in reality he wasn't?

This doesn't tell us much.

I know chapters that have taken "underground pledges" when those pledges couldn't actually participate because of grades, first-semester freshman status, etc.


All I'm saying is that it's fascinating to me how everyone was so quick to say how awful this fraternity chapter is, and now in a matter of hours and a few news stories later, they're saying how the chapter is completely innocent and Jackie is a liar.

And wasn't there another alleged victim who came forward this week about being raped at the same fraternity house decades ago?

ETA: Question… did Phi Kappa Psi make a public statement prior to Rolling Stone retracting their statements/article?

Yes, there is another victim from UVA and she has spoken out. She's not alleged, she's a victim, her rapist was eventually caught and confessed. But yes, it was decades ago, so not seeing how that is relevant as evidence that Jackie's allegation must be true.

I think Phi Psi made some kind of statement but it wasn't much, why?

I'm simply pointing out that there's a chance this chapter isn't completely innocent.

Again...

I tend not to believe much on the internet anymore. People comment and speak in such absolutes and are so sure of themselves without all the facts. And that doesn't just apply to this story.

I'll wait to hear more before jumping to conclusions one way or the other.

It's obvious you really care about the University of Virginia, so I have a question.

From the RS article:

"She was having an especially difficult time figuring out how to process that awful night, because her small social circle seemed so underwhelmed. For the first month of school, Jackie had latched onto a crew of lighthearted social strivers, and her pals were now impatient for Jackie to rejoin the merriment. "You're still upset about that?" Andy asked one Friday night when Jackie was crying. Cindy, a self-declared hookup queen, said she didn't see why Jackie was so bent out of shape. "Why didn't you have fun with it?" Cindy asked. "A bunch of hot Phi Psi guys?" One of Jackie's friends told her, unconcerned, "Andy said you had a bad experience at a frat, and you've been a baby ever since."

Does this sound like it would be a remotely plausible reaction to a brutal gang rape by 7 men? Is this the typical UVA student? If so, it's monsterous.

I had friends who went to UVA and visited there when I was in college. My grandfather went there, and my parents both attended schools in VA (W & L and Randolph Macon). A number of my friends kids have attended over the years, including a half dozen who are current students. I've always loved and admired the school. But those comments are just unrecognizable from my impressions.

This whole world is a strange and bizarre one to me. I had never heard the term "roofie" until all this emerged. And I was shocked to hear what students at UVA today were telling their parents after the disappearance of young Hannah who was eventually found murdered. As it turned out, the alleged perp had had rape allegations brought against him before coming to C'ville and nothing came of any of them. One of them was at Liberty College, the school Falwell started. If I remember correctly, the other was also a religious college. What these parents were telling me bore absolutely no resemblance to anything I had either encountered or heard about during my college days as a Greek. And also Secty. of the Student Body, where I kept a pretty close watch on what was going on on campus. These same parents were also somewhat incredulous when I told them that this was not going on in the Greek world on campus back in the day! The most that ever happened was that a certain frat would spike its punch with Everclear, something virtually everyone knew about. Also some "men" on campus would try to get their dates drunk so as to have their way with her. One night "Hook ups" were not heard of or certainly were not a common way of handling ones social life. So hearing this about UVA as well as another large university up the road -which is supposed to be worse- came as a shock to me.

Only one of our four joined a fraternity, and he flunked out of college after doing nothing but hang out at his frat house all day and drink beer. (He since then has had his "Come to Jesus" moment, returned to school graduating with high honors, and is now employed as a detective in a municipal police department.) The others wanted nothing to do with the Greek system. Nor have the children of our friends. Or other college-aged children in my extended family. They never told me any specifics, just made it clear that they wanted nothing to to with it. Nor were they into the nightly party culture which clearly DOES exist on many campuses.

My husband is a graduate of an Ivy League school and had no Greek affiliation other than Phi Beta Kappa. And then was a Woodrow Wilson Scholar at another Ivy. Many of our friends are also from that background, as are many of their children or serious students elsewhere and without Greek affiliations. So the wilder part of today's campus life is not to be found within our circle of friends, including our church.

It's hard to know what a rape victim would reliably remember, particularly one who has been diagnosed with PTSD and is presumably on medication. So IMO there is much that we don't know in terms of the particulars. I do find it telling that with regard to hazing and risk management protocols, fraternities are framing it in terms of it being a financial and liability matter rather than a moral one, which they don't seem to want to touch with a ten foot pole.

I am very concerned about how the Greek community will handle this. As I have posted before, this could be used as a golden opportunity to provide leadership on campus, which would also contribute to changing the image they have, for better or for worse. And as my Phi Beta Kappa key carrying husband says, if they are smart they will do just that.

Well, that didn't actually address head on what I was asking, but I think I understand why now. You don't really have direct contemporary ties to the UVA greek community, or any college greek community. And your friends and their children don't either. But you obviously revere greek life and don't want to see it harmed. Perfect target audience for the RS propaganda piece.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this resolves. As I said earlier, it's more than likely back to business-as-usual.

Really strange times we are living in.

Thank you, 1964, for your thoughtful posts on the matter. I particularly liked the points that you made concerning legal discovery and that the poor editorial management compromised any truth in the matter. It's not a black and white situation (where one side is fully truthful and the other not), and we are not yet in possession of all of the facts.

One sentence that explains what went wrong in Rolling Stone’s rape story http://www.vox.com/2014/12/5/7341297...icle-share-top

LOL! "Jackie said". I see some folks are still gullibly hanging on her every word.

And a retraction by R S! Meanwhile the whole GLO community is besmirched over this travisty of media B S!

U V owes them a huge appology and very quick.

Thank you, pinksequins. No, I don't think we have the whole story as yet. And I would imagine that all parties are pretty much lawyered up at this point and are saying what their lawyers are counseling them to say publicly. Nor do we know what pressures were brought to bear and from where on Rolling Stone to issue its retraction. Or the effect that this kind of trauma would have on an individual's capacity to remember exactly what happened to her. None of this is all black or all white by a long shot.

And honorgirl, no one is being "gullible", in your words, in seeing all these shades of gray in this very complex situation.

Nor do I think the Greek community can issue a collective "exhale" over the more recent Rolling Stone statements.

I think you have misunderstood my point. First of all, I wasn't referring to anyone here as "gullible". And I wasn't referring to the complexities in the situation, ie, the RS story and whether it is true or not true, or some variation I between.

I was directing that word at the Vox reporter, Sarah Kliff. She bases her entire thesis of what went wrong with the reporting of the story on the "fact" that Jackie said she tried to get herself dropped from the article. Did she get confirmation of that from RS, or even attempt to? If so, she doesn't tell us. Jackie's claim may very well be true, that she did ask. Or it may not be true. We simply have no idea, and Sarah Kliff apparently doesn't either.

If Jackie did try to get dropped from the story, then I agree with Sarah Kliff. And the reporter and RS have even more to answer for than previously thought.

Here's another explaination for what went wrong:

http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/r...bin_erdely.php

Not sure if this is directed at me, but I agree with you. There are some very loud and powerful voices intent on taking down the Greek system. As with most things, there are good points and negative points about that system. That these voices don't ackowledge the good is obvious. And they therefore are ignoring what might be the very negative consequences of achieving their goals. Does anyone here think that the alcohol culture would disappear without the Greek system? I think a case could be made that it would become worse.

I'd like to add that we are all subject to biases. I am sure that mine was the basis for my gut reaction to the original story. Over the past decade, all three of my kids have been in the campus setting (my daughter is still in college). Three different schools, in very different geographical locales. All three joined a Greek organization and we have been involved, as parents, in their school communities. In particular, I've spent a lot of time visiting my daughters campus, helped with her group's week long rush as a "Rush mom" and have spent weekends there during the fall football season, interacting with the Greek community at their tailgating and parents activities. To a lesser extent, I did these things at my sons schools too. I've had the pleasure of getting to know some of their friends and aquaintences at all three schools.

I simply could not connect the events and conversations with and reactions from friends that were described in the RS article with any of the college kids I've gotten to know and observed.

We all have biases. We are better off if we examine them critically.

When I read the RS piece I was in disbelief that such a thing could occur and everyone around be so callous to it. As a fraternity man it was disgusting that something so brutal would be permitted to happen and in a way sanctioned by that chapter and possibly the Greek system. This reporter purposely sought out the wealthiest, "most elite" fraternity on the campus of a wealthy, elite institution to do her story, but why? Now as this all starts to unfold I don't know if it's an exaggerated attempt to bring focus on rape or if it's just a hit piece against fraternities disguised as investigative journalism. Maybe she wanted to kill two birds with one stone? The story worked though. It got people riled up enough that discussions on whether we should get rid of the Greek system was talked about from NPR to CNN. I even heard some voices calling for UVa to close down because of the allegations of widespread abuse on campus. I Still think more is to come from this, so I'm holding off on forming any opinions till more info comes out.

I shouldn't, but I did.

Rolling Stone's Missteps Will Set Rape Dialogue Back Years, Advocates Worry http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6283962.html

Greek leaders go on the offensive at UVA By Maggie Severns
12/7/14 8:20 PM EST
National fraternity and sorority leaders are calling on the University of Virginia to reinstate its Greek system, which the university suspended after an article in Rolling Stone that is now in dispute chronicled an alleged gang rape at a campus fraternity.

"Rolling Stone Jumps On Anti-Greek Story, Deems Fact Checking Unnecessary" is right up there with "Water Is Wet" in terms of surprise statements.

Come ON, people.

There was a time when RS did great journalism, but there was also a time when Jordache jeans were a designer item. They are now sold at walmart. In other words....both are cheap rags at this point.

I am happy to read that Jean Mrasek, the chair of the NPC, has asked for a seat at the table in UVA's discussions of changing sexual assault policies.

I also read that the IFC at UVA is developing some new policies regarding how parties are the be managed in the future. Ideas sound good, but there has as yet to be specifics as to how they will be enforced.

Hopefully there will be a beneficial collaboration.

Updated apology digs bigger hole for Rolling Stone http://wpo.st/RUIx

UVA Rape Victim’s Roommate Pens Letter Supporting Her Story http://nym.ag/1schd5g via @intelligencer

In the meantime, the Washington Post also quietly removed a key claim from their own scathing report on the UVA story.

http://jezebel.com/the-uva-mess-is-now-a-full-fledged-shitstorm-1668191002

Phi Kappa Psi is going to have a whole new house compliments of RS by the time this crapfest is over. I worry for "Jackie's" ability to handle all of these accusations crashing down on her now. Hope she is being carefully monitored.

Has anyone been able to find the actual statement put out by IFC and NPC? If so, please post a link. Would really like to read it first hand, rather than read Politico's reporting on it.

http://www.nicindy.org/blog1/joint-s...arolling-stone

This is from the National Interfraternity Council website.

This is how it currently reads so I would disagree with Jezebels claim that they removed anything "key":

"Reached by phone, that man, a U-Va. graduate, said Friday that he worked at the Aquatic and Fitness Center and was familiar with Jackie’s name. But he added that he never met Jackie in person and never took her out on a date. He also said he was not a member of Phi Kappa Psi."

ETA, I do find the wording "in person" a little odd. Don't you usually just say "I've never met xyz?" Maybe they've had some kind of internet interaction? Just struck me as strange wording in this context.

Thank you very much.

I'm heartened to see some of the "key" grown ups in this issue are pushing back against the hysteria.

I say that all the time about people I've been interacting with on GC for a decade and a half, but have never physically been in the same room with. :) He may have been FB friends with her or heard her name through other friends.

Seems like the Washington Post edited that back in. Might have been after or right before or right as the blog post was being published. If the WP doesn't indicate edits, then there's no way to tell but there's a photo on the blog post and it was left out when I read the WP article.

I don't find it odd. I hear it used when people want to say they know of a person, but haven't met in person (since people can "meet" over the internet, e.g. Facebook or forums like 33girl mentioned).

I think to my age group Facebook friends and Facebook chatting would constitute "meeting" but not meeting in person.