ROTFL! I think we should put this phrase in the recruitment booklets!

Titchou, I edited since I am just asking specifically about this business of grade requirements.

Would it not be to NPC's (or individual CPHs) advantage to state that there is a grade requirement/minimum GPA to enter recruitment? I don't see how it helps PR to encourage young women to enter recruitment when they have no chance whatsoever of making it past the first round.

My thinking is based on the fact that virtually every GLO was established on the foundation of scholarship being paramount. See Bound By A Mighty Vow for a great explanation of the early days of GLOs.

What am I missing here?

The problem is that NPC, and correctly so, pushes the agenda that every group sets their own grade requirements. Therefore, CPH should not effectively stop women from participating in recruitment because they may meet someone's requirement. Now, we know that they most likely won't make the cut but then there are those who are taken as exceptions. So by implementing a grade requirement to participate in recruitment, CPH is effectively overriding the individual groups' autonomy.

So how do you communicate that to a PNM? Frankly, you can't to all of them as some just will think they are the "exceptions." It's a tough tightrope to walk.

ah, thanks - got it. Uh huh. I see. My black and white/analytical thinking doesn't always work well for every situation...appreciate you taking the time to respond and clarify.

I know what you're saying. But there ARE women who have grades and activities who don't get past the doors of where they really want to be, and what
actually might be a great place for them. And often for them, "a" bid doesn't cut it - they want "the" bid. And they decide they'd rather not be Greek than be the "wrong" Greek. If that wasn't true, every chapter in every SEC school would be at total and take quota every time and chapters would not close at these schools because of low numbers. This end result is no less disheartening than women getting cut at IU because there isn't physical space for them in the house.

We CAN go around and around about it, but IMO, unless the students (and the monetarily involved alumnae) are the ones who lobby for the change, the only way to make it happen is to do it all at once. Pulling the Band-Aid off slowly just increases the numbers of women who remember "the old way." Also, starting what is essentially a new type of system would make it easier for new groups to enter the campus on equal footing.

Which all goes back to my basic point. If a group goes to IU as things are now, and doesn't have a long term plan in place for being an unhoused group that will be essentially apart from the rest of the sororities and a way to spin that positively...they're nuts.

I think you all are seeing the "bed quota" thing as more strict than it actually is. Chapters at this school are HUGE and they get to set their own quota which is typically, roughly a bed quota. Our house is housing 87 women this year. There are 129 members BEFORE recruitment and the chapter usually sets quota at right around 50. So, if we take our quota, we'll have 179 members. Obviously they are not all living in. Seniors live out and the new members don't live in. You're basically replacing your juniors.

It isn't like this is a school with 19 NPC groups and they keep the chapter sizes down to 50 or something.

It's pretty much impossible to know what quota would be in a traditional quota/Total system. It may not be much different because you will still have women dropping out when they are cut by their most desired chapter or getting cut from all groups.

Are the numbers comparable for other chapters?

33girl: You've hit the nail on the head and don't realize it. This is a MUTUAL selection process. Just because you want to be an ZZZ doesn't mean that you just simply get to be one. If that's too competitive and offends you, sorry. Each group can only take so many women. There has to be a way to whittle that down. And yes, some get their panties in a wad and quit. But that doesn't mean the system doesn't work. It's about wanting the Greek experience, not just wanting to be an AAA.

No, it doesn't offend me at all. You're totally misinterpreting me. My point is that there are disappointed rushees in EVERY Greek system - even the most noncompetitive. And there are great women who get overlooked or cut for dumb reasons or disinheartened and drop out in EVERY Greek system. The reason I chose the SEC as an example is because when I tell people they can go through a noncompetitive rush and be disappointed...when I tell people I saw it first hand...they often don't believe me.

IU isn't the devil because they want to stick with the system they have and cut many qualified women, any more than Arkansas is the devil because it's very hard for a new chapter to make it there and they have to cut many qualified women. Different strokes for different folks, but from where I sit those are both equally contradictory to NPC's "belief statement" of every woman being able to find her place in a sorority. If there's a situation at a campus that an NPC group (or NPC as a whole) finds contradictory to its mission, or potentially emotionally damaging to its members or potential members, they can pull their chapter(s) out any old time. If a school feels a Greek org's or system's policies are contradictory to its mission or potentially emotionally damaging to its students, they can say "do this or we derecognize you."

If the NPC as a whole and its groups as individuals really think IU's system is that awful, they need to grow a pair and either pull out or pass policies that prevent that sort of system. As carnation has mentioned, Arkansas changed from a bed quota system. I'm betting that the NPC groups and NPC in general lobbied for this change. In other words...they grew a pair.

You're right. You are on such a tear that I can't figure out what your stance is. The upperclassmen thing that has no bearing. "Potential" new member isn't plain enough for you. I give up.

I don't have exact comparative numbers but I believe most of the others are either similar or larger than our chapter.

The most recent number I can find is on the Spring 2009 grade report from the University which says that the average chapter size at that time was 143. It is my understanding that has increased a bit over the past 18 months so that would support that other chapters are of similar sizes.

WTF??? I just told you I agreed with you. Actually, I agreed with you twice. Should I kiss your feet too?

I also love when people take tangents and forget about reading the whole post. So since you decided to focus on a tangent (that I guess I should go back and take out in case it baffles someone else), I'll summarize the rest of the post for you.

Women get disappointed at every school, in every rush. IU's rush is not the sole producer of disappointed women who end up hating Greek life because they use a bed quota. A rush (competitive or noncompetitive) that follows the total/quota system will also occasionally produce disappointed women. Neither is perfect.

If you think IU's system is that terrible, I would lobby your national HQ to withdraw their chapter from there until it is changed. If you don't think it's that terrible, then I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Was that simple enough?

I think the weird part for me, as an outsider, is the idea that chapter sizes and NM classes would be different from chapter to chapter, but I don't have any numbers that show me how much. Like, are we talking about chapters all between 120 and 150, or are we talking a range from 80 - 200?

The former doesn't sound that weird, the latter does.

You said I was totally misinterpreting you. So I agreed that I had no idea what you are ranting about. WTF is right! Outta here on this one....

So we have to be back at iu in like 3 days is anyone else scared they are going to br that girl who gets 3 invites back for 14 party?

Even if you are "that girl" don't let it get you down. You can only accept one bid in the end.

The placement rates at some of the most competitive SEC schools are very high, in the range of 75% or even higher at Auburn & Ole Miss. The number of PNMs who maximize their options, but who are cut from all houses, is tiny, in the low single digits. This suggests that the system is doing a good job of finding a place for qualified PNMs who are willing to take it.

I see a big difference between PNMs dropping out when XYZ cuts them (a problem at competitive campuses nationwide, including Q/T campuses) and PNMs being cut from the system altogether (which happens way more at Indiana than it does elsewhere). Yes, at the end of recruitment the number of women in houses may be the same. But in the first instance, the system has done everything it can to accommodate those women, and in the second, it has not.

My limited experience suggests that Indiana's system creates unusually bitter and anti-Greek independents compared to other Big 10 campuses.
________
Web shows

I'm getting the distinct impression that this poster WAS "that girl" her last recruitment.

And as several IU students on this thread have commented...the administration's attitude is "not that there's anything wrong with that."

Everyone - current members, alumnae, rushees/students in general and the school administration - needs to get on the same page to truly change things up at IU.

As far as the "placement rates" you cite, 75% of what? Women who begin rush or women who make it through to preference? Just wondering what figure you're using.

Women who begin rush.
________

I'm so ready for this guys. A few girls on my floor & I found this site and are more than excited it has an Indiana U page. =D
I'm head over heals excited for this.
Is there any Indiana girls on here that have already gone past rushing? I have a question on my last outfit I bought for rush.

Yeah sure ask away! I went through recruitment two years ago so I'm pretty fresh with everything!

I haven't been here for a couple days so I haven't been following things- but IU's affiliation rate last year was about 53%-- I don't know if that's what 75% was referring too.

I wish I knew the total break down between drops after every round but out of the roughly 1500 women who begin recruitment, only slightly more than half will be extended a bid.

I would like to follow kirkwood's lead and ask a question or two about outfits as well. :)

1: I bought these shorts (link to photograph) and I was wondering if they'd be appropriate to wear to 14 party WITH tights and a tucked-in blouse and flats. I really like the outfit I planned, but I also don't want to be known as "the shorts girl" or something if everyone else is in jeans. Would they be appropriate? They look like this: http://i53.tinypic.com/23tjwqh.jpg

2. What do most people wear to 8 party? The fact that it's more formal than 14 but less than 3 makes it kind of tricky. I don't want to be over or underdressed.

CookiesNCream- I think the shorts with tights is very cute. I would expect a lot of people will go with nice jeans or dress pants but it's good to stand out as long as you feel confident and happy with your outfit. How you present yourself is more important that the clothes. For 8 Party, most people wear a pencil skirt (with tights or hose) and a nice blouse with heels. Utilize your Rho Gamma too! I know my girls have been sending me pictures and texts all break about outfits and such so I'm sure yours would be happy to help too! Good luck and don't stress too much! Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions!

I don't know the exact numbers, but from being an active member at IU, most houses range from 120-180, with a couple of houses falling a few members below the bottom range.

Most pledge classes are from 35-55 NM, again with a couple houses just a few spots less than the lower range.

I believe the smallest chapter is Tri-Delta, a full pledge class for them is about 25 women, and that meets their full quota.

The shorts are cute!! I'm not a big fashion girl but I think they're nice. Just so long as you're comfortable, go for it!!

And I agree with Hoosierx-- skirts are great! So are pants though. Just as a general rule to life that I always go to is "don't wear anything that doesn't flatter you." Wearing a flattering outfit that you feel comfortable in is more important than looking trendy for sure! Also-- you might want to bring a bag along to keep your boots in so you can change out your heels!

1st Question - I wasn't sure if I should go with one of these skirts for 8 party: http://tinypic.com/r/k505fk/7 or http://oi53.tinypic.com/1175xs7.jpg
With maybe tights/leggings under them [weather wise] and a tank top with a cardigan and flats. Is that 8 party wear or no? If not I do have a nicer skirt.

2nd Question - I was wondering about the cocktail dresses for 3 party. I'm tall so find a long enough dress is HARD! I was thinking of wearing a silky skirt/top out fit with maybe some flats or heals. I that an okay thing to do? If not I do have one dress that is semi cocktail but it's kind of low cut, so I'm not sure what I should do.

Also, I hope everyone got good news from their Rho Gammas today. Our whole group got invites to at least 3 house, so I hope everyone else gets about the same or better.
=D

Thanks guys for your help! I will rock my shorts with confidence :D

Kirkwood that's great news to hear! For some reason our Rho Gamma has not emailed or contacted us at all today, but I'm hoping for good news for my whole group :)

It IS the 80's all over again. My oldest sister (who went through Rush in 1981 or so) had a pair of red plaid wool shorts that she wore a lot. Do keep the weather in mind! If it's too cold, go for practical. If you can't warm up through the whole party you won't give the best impression.

And best of luck to all of you. The philosophical discussion happening here doesn't have anything to do with what you have in front of you right now.

For 8 Party, I suggest pencil skirts or business type skirts. Think school awards or presentation look. WEAR TIGHTS! Not only do they look classy but you'll be cold otherwise. Don't forget to wear sweatpants or something similar to stay warm between rounds (particularly 8 and 3)

With cocktail dresses, just remember it needs to be more formal than what you've worn previously. There will be ceremonies and it will be more emotional so it's respectful to dress nicely. If you don't have appropriate dresses, I'm sure a skirt and top would be just as acceptable!

Make sure you feel comfortable with whatever you decide to wear! Have a safe trip back to Bloomington

OMG, I can not stop laughing at this. And to think that a few hours West of you we complained about having to rush in August's 100-degree heat.

What is "kinda low cut"? Is it a style that you could sneak a cami under to fix that?

If you show up in a skirt and top, and everyone else is in a cocktail dress, are you going to feel self-conscious all night? Or would you feel weirder in your cocktail dress because you may show a little skin?

I just think it is better to be over-dressed than under-, as a general life rule.

Cookies N Cream- our rho gamma hasn't gotten in contact with us either. We have a meeting later tonight, so she will probably tell us then:)

So excited/ kindof nervous!! Good luck everyone!!!

Are high boots OK? (not scary hip boots but to the knee boots) Tights are not flattering to everyone's legs and boots can help with that. :) (You can also wear footless tights + socks under high boots so the crotch of your tights isn't at your knees all day.)

Good luck to the ladies going to 14 party tomorrow!! I'll be right there with you suffering through a long day. But it all buffs out in the end! :)

I just finished Day 1 of 14 party!

Now I can start to see the not-so-pretty side of recruitment. Many girls (myself included) were disappointed to see that we did not get asked back to houses that we felt we had a good connection at. But such is life!

I got 11/14 houses back, including several on my bottom five (some of which I definitely liked better after going to them today). I was cut by some of my favorites from 19 and a lot of girls on my floor got a full list of 14, which kind of sucked for those of us who didn't... oh well.

I am hoping that I'll still be able to find a home within one of IU's chapters... I still liked a lot of houses today and I'm trying to keep an open mind and positive attitude. It's tough but I hope it all works out in the end.

11/14 is amazing. And remember: you only need 1.