:eek:

Hey,count me in, too! :)

I think that everyone understands the concept in theory.

We just don't understand why that is really a viable alternative for those members who truly value the rich histories, traditions, and practices that exist because of our (inter)national affiliations. And, of course, we're attempting to see this from the standpoint of the types of organizations where this sort of thing is more likely to apply.

Plus, the position was that this would be an increased occurrence (for IFC fraternities, I guess) and that's where the "discussion" really comes in.

Cannot agree with you more.

Todays kids that go to college are pretty smart and I think they would tend to go with tradition fof a National Fraternity for the future and what it could mean for them.

In pledgeing an off shoot or rouge GLO, what does one have? Just that small group, not the net work of a National and all of the GLOs who are out there in the real after graduation world.

National HQs do not make the regulations and rules, the membership does.

If a certain chapter does not want to abide by them, then try to change them. The Nationals run the daily business within the rules laid out to them.

If those rules are broken, they do make the decision to suspend or put on probation.

Wanting to keep with tradition is exactly the reason some chapters break off. With these new programs that many fraternities are instituting in chapters......tradition and history is thrown out the window. Many of us have grown up around fraternities and certain chapters all of our lives. We know how they have operated, and it is disturbing when the MO is changed into something lesser than what we expect.

I see what you mean on the surface level.

But beyond the surface, this reeks more of a sense of entitlement than a yearning to maintain tradition. Are these fraternities' national entities really doing away with the tride and true traditions that many people "grew up around" and have "known about/expected" all of their lives? That phenomenon might be its own thread.

So, these sense of entitlement and tradition should check mate what importance means/

No, I am not arguing with you on that point, but what mccallan said.

That was one of the most ignorant posts that I have seen when one is bigger than the whole.

So this one chapter tells the whole screw you we are going on our own and be better?

Sorry, how many ways can one spell stupid or ignorant?

Dayum. That's pathetic. If you ask me, that chapter would have done the world a favor by taking the kid out of the gene pool.
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Prilosec Attorney

This thread is starting to remind me of "you can be against the war and still support the troops" or the opposite of that, and all the permutations thereof.

Hey Tom, my post was not stupid or ignorant. Don't ever talk to me about that you rambling, drunk bafoon.

I didn't say a single thing that you typed or asked. I never said a single chapter is bigger than the whole. I never said we should say "screw you" to the nationals.

Damn you're an idiot.

When you are told who you are supposed to rush, how long your pledge period has to be, what you can do, what you can't do, etc. etc. etc.............then yes, I feel that many of the traditions are being done away with.

Why can't I have a sense of self-entitlement in this situation? Is it bad? Many of these programs that nationals try to institute in chapters turns them all into watered down versions of their former self, imo.

So there was a time when such regulations didn't exist at all? I'm curious.

I'm really talking about your belief that there are people who had a knowledge of "how they operated" of these organizations and chapters prior to coming to college. How a nonmember (and even a noncollege student) knows about "how they operated" is something that members need to correct.

There's a difference between saying "these changes are at a detriment to the organization as a whole and we are petitioning for change" and saying "this isn't what my chapter brothers and I (who are a small % of the organization) thought we were signing up for when our fathers told us about this fraternity...so we're disaffiliating." :) What happens after you graduate?

It reminds me more of the NPHC threads that debate paper vs. pledging since the NPHC groups did away with pledging. Some of the inter/national fraternities have not eliminated pledging completely, but have put a lot of restrictions on it that some chapters don't like.

I do find it interesting that these young men are seeing programs like the Balanced Man and Men of Principle type programs as a detriment. It seems to me that the goals of these programs are to help young men become gentlemen, obeying the law, readying themselves for gainful employment in leadership positions and holding high ideals. Is it simply that there is disagreement on how best to attain these goals?

I can't speak for macallan, but I think by saying we know "how they operated", we're more discussing the conservatism of the chapter, pledgeship (because often we know from famiily or friends what it's suppose to be like, i.e. not 8 weeks long), and this sort of thing. Not the specific operations, but I'm clearly seeking a chapter operation that is conservative, like my upbringing.

Does no one see this as I do? I think it is a simple case of national working to improve their organizations, align them with the 21st century, evolve into a better fraternal brotherhood. And, the chapters are rebelling because they don't like being told they have to change or modify what they have been doing for the past gazillion years. That's it. Plain and simple.

It already happened to the NPC groups and we all survived, heck, we're thriving.