I wonder if I'm the only one who sees that you actually agreed with what she said.

In your case, it's not your whiteness that you are proud of, it is your family and their accomplishments -- as she said.

I'm not reading through all of this so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything but...
 

it saddens me that this issue of race and class in this country has gotten so bad that White/Caucasian people can't even express a love and honor of their race without being labled racist.

TO HAVE PRIDE IN YOUR RACE IS NOT HATING ALL OTHER RACES:mad: Just except the fact that some of your ancestors *ucked up. Hell, we all gots peeps in our history that wasn't quite right, ya know. But it was your/our ANCESTORS that did it...forgive, just don't forget so we won't have any repeats. Also, change the way it is today.

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okay rant over, whew:)

I said all of this to say, if your org is historically white, be historically white. It seems like you all are trying to downplay that fact because of the reason your org was historically white, mainly it's exclusionary policies. Most of these policies had to do with the time period in which they were formed and most were just plain racism, but whatever the reason saying it's historically white shouldn't be a point of shame.

DEAL WITH IT, BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT!

ok now I'm done:p

In the beginning of her post she states that the entire history of whiteness cannot be separated from superiority and power. That is untrue, and that is what I took issue with.

She then implies that when white nationalities are lumped together it becomes a source of shame. I replied that people don't seem to have a problem lumping together people of different backgrounds who are black.

An observation as I have seen several instances of this in this thread:

When you use black (to designate a group) then you use white (to designate a group) -- when you use African American (to designate a group) then you use Caucasian (to designate a group). You should not say African American for one & White for another in designation, nor should you say Caucasian for one & Black for another in designation.

As for the posts - this is as usual the ridiculous train wreck that always follows any topic where skin color is brought up. I am seriously WTH?! :confused: that people believe someone can not separate the color of their skin from the need to have power & dominate others. Also, as for the % of minorities in GLO's - any GLO - that is not controlled by the GLO itself. You cannot make people of certain heritage, skin color, sexual preference, what have you sign up to join an organization. The people that come & express interest, are the ones from which the members make their selection. You can't offer someone an invitation who hasn't come to any events or shown interest in the group. We are not all blonde haired & blue eyed - there are all different people in every GLO - different races, creeds, religions, sexual orientations, etc. etc. Why does skin color become the only litmus test for the diversity of an organization?

OTW - we need avatars so you can post a picture of your FEMALE NON-WHITE self beside every post!!

I don't think, looking at the development of whiteness and the priviledge that is associated with it, that it is something that should be embraced. I honestly feel that the world would be a better place if we could all just move past whiteness. I'm not saying that's the easiest thing to do, and I certainly don't have an easy answer of how to do it, but it's how I feel and it's something that I am committed to.

Race isn't inherent; it's a social construct. As the people who make up society, we do play some role in choosing to continue or discontinue racial ideologies. If we can deconstruct white, that would be the first step toward breaking down so many barriers. Society defines me as white, and therefore associates me with certain behaviors, etc. - that doesn't mean that I have to think of myself that way. People assume that they can say certain things around me, do certain things around me, whatever, because I have pale skin - but I don't have to go along with that, and I can choose to break those expectations. Those are the kinds of things I am talking about.

I don't know how much sense all that made, and I know this has gotten so horribly off topic ... if anyone really wants to talk more about this kind of stuff, it'd probably be better if you PM'd me, I don't know if the whole board wants to hear me go on about it (these are the things I focus on in school ...).

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't know when to use the term "African-American" or when to use the term "black." Most of my friends who have black skin are not African Americans, and do not like being called that. They describe themselves as "black." I guess other people must take offense to the description "black" - I don't know - just an observation.

no, it seemed the same to me.

Maybe I misread what OPhiARen3 was saying, but I didn't take her to mean telling people to deny who they are at all. I read her as saying be proud of who you are.

I think she was trying to say this (she can certainly correct me if I'm wrong): historically the label white (or "white race"): has had no real meaning except "not black, aboriginal, etc." Basically, describing someone as "white" necessarily described them by saying what they weren't. I think she was saying that pride comes from heritage, not just from pigmintation. "Whites" cover a whole range of very different ethnicities -- Italian, Irish, Norwegian, historically Northen African and Middle Eastern and on and on and on. I think she was saying be proud of who you are and where you came from, but that "white" didn't necessarily describe that.

I think it can be a bit more nuanced, though. Race may indeed be a social construct, but social constructs can take on a reality. Like "white," "black" describes people of various ethnicities, but who, for the most part, share a common historical experience in this country. That shared historical experience gives some meaning to being "black" in this country that transcends whether one's ancestors came from Nigeria or Uganda. In some cases, this may be true of "whites" as well. I am a Southern white man, and I think that may give rise to a common historical experience that is not limited to nation of origin. The same may well be true elsewhere.

So what would I say? I am very proud of my Scottish, English, Welsh, Cornish, Dutch and Huguenaut heritage. I don't think of myself as being proud of being white. I'm not ashamed of it, I don't deny it -- it just seems to me like being proud of having green eyes.

But yet I am proud of being a Southern white, because the experience, good and bad, of being a white person in the South is part of who I am. I fully recognize the baggage that carries and what some, including some of my ancestors did. But while I don't deny history, I don't deny my pride either, because that is part of who I am. Does the distinction make any sense?

But, and this is a big but . . . I would be very careful of how I express that pride, if for no other reason than the phrase "white pride" carries connotations of the Klan and of Nazism with which I definitely do not want to be associated.

All hail the Sinfonian.

Seriously, this is why I love Phi Mu Alpha!

I had to stop you there.
IT SAYS NEGRO ON YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE:eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

Agreed. I do not deny that, according to sociohistorical norms, I am white. I fully accept my history and all of the implications of my skin color. But I refuse to act on my skin color and try to refuse to the privileges of that I get for it when I can.

YES!!!!

For the box where it says 'Race, Mother' my mother is classified as Negro. For the box where it says 'Race, Father' my father is classified as Negro. For the box where it says 'Race, Child' I am classified as Negro.

For my granparents, they were classified as 'Colored'.

My maternal grandfather attended Colored High School of Houston in the 19-teens.

I am so sorry... I will write more, but I am so sorry.

You never know what can of worms you're opening when you start a thread.

don't be sorry. this thread has been interesting.

alphafrog is right. you can never predict what will happen and you didn't do anything on purpose to provoke this. you asked an honest question and it went off on a tangent. :)