Re: Re: Re: Looks like it's Hershel Dennis
 

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Your homerism here needs to not bleed past your OU roots - A&M sucks, badly, right now. Rebuilding teams do NOT deserve the respect of their forefathers until they earn it.

OSU is solid, but so is WVU - athletic squads, well-coached, but with significant flaws. We'll call it a wash there.

Baylor? SHUT UP. Not even applicable, any team can win on any given day, but a loss to the bears? would you be ok w/ that, kev?

UT is the most overrated program in the history of college football. How many seasons do they have to start in the top 5 and lose in the Holiday Bowl? They are purely a media creation.

And Tx Tech? Jesus - they are a system. That's all. Sure, the system racks up monster numbers, and it rapes patsie non-conference teams, and they always pull out a surprise win or two, but they get shredded in bowl games. Strictly a mediocre squad, I'd compare them to Syracuse, and not favorably, any day of the week.

Take out OU, and the Big8 sucks (obviously with nebraska down, and colorado being essentially non-existent - this is not the glory days of the conference). Sorry, kev, but it's the f-ing truth, dude.

according to the '04 athlon college football guide...

2. OU
6. Texas
11. Missouri
12. K-state
23. Nebraska
28. OSU
39. Texas Tech
43. Colorado
52. TAMU
69. Kansas
85. Iowa State
92. Baylor

Big East (with Miami and VA-tech)

4. Miami
5. W-Virginia
30. BC
32. Virginia Tech
62. Pitt
65. Syracuse
74. UCONN (where ALL of my players seem to transfer on NCAA '05 :( )
104. Temple

now seriously...are y'all even debating the big twelve vs. the big east? come on....maybe basketball, but not football.

Not that I think Athlon's a great mag..

But yah, K-Sig, you did leave out K-State. Not a half bad program. Nebraska will be coming back more than likely. Maybe not this year, but soon. A&M has nowhere to go but up after last year. God they were awful. Francione (ass) has a good history of turning teams around. He got scary close to beating OU when his Bama team played AT OU back in 2003 (Stoops has only had one loss at home since '99).

The Big East though.. you're comparing the BEST teams the BE has to offer against the mediocre teams of the Big XII. Let's take your best squad by far... WV. I'd say that they are MAYBE even with some of the middle of the pack guys like Okie State, Texas Tech, etc.

BTW, Tech is just a system? Okay, if it's "Just a system", everyone should run it, get 50+ points per game and 500+ yards through the air. I think every coach in NCAA D-I would be using that system if it were that easy. Leach is just a hell of an offensive coach. They also play against some excellent Defenses and win. Texas Tech is good and getting better.

Texas just has to do one thing to be top-5 material again. Get a good coach. They have as much talent as anyone in the country according to Rivals/Insider.

Anyway, back to the former argument... The bottom of the Big East.. Rutgers, Temple, etc.. I'd definitely say that Kansas or Baylor would stand a good chance against 'em. You'll never get matchups like that, b/c teams like those go on the road to lose. Baylor is also under Morriss improving a lot. If you've watched any of their games, they're definitely playing better.

Miami... I'd liken them to Texas. They drop games they have no business dropping. But at least they own FSU. But they're not Big East anymore.

Enjoy my stream of consciousness?

Back to the main point. You can't take OU out of the Big XII. If you compare the Big XII to be Big East, there simply is NO comparison. WV wouldn't even be in the top half of the Big XII in my opinion.

All good points - i didn't use KSU b/c you were discussing the Big8 south, so i was providing counterpoint.

Althon's rankings? we'll see how it plays out - Mizzou and TU have long-standing history of being overrated pre-season (plus i don't think even Rich Rodriguez would put WVU at #5 all season...).

Anyway, we'll get back to the discussion- I obviously was using a little bit of hyperbole in the bigeast discussion, but the Big8 is horrendously overrated every year. I will stand by my statement that w/out OU they are a decidedly mediocre conference, and that they are not ANYWHERE above the big10 or SEC in terms of their programs, which has been claimed on numerous occasions.

And Texas Tech sucks, do not ever bring that to me ever again. They just don't win big games against good competition. It's a system; how many TTU players are currently playing in the pros?

TTU is a mystery... They beat Texas more often than Texas beats them... but that's Texas for ya. If someone wants to beat TTU, just look at what Oklahoma does to them. Everytime OU's played 'em, they've been totally shut down.

With the talent they recruit at Texas, it's hard not to rank them in the top 10. But the coaching is just pitiful. They've changed DC's, but I'd say it's their HC that is the problem.

As for the Big 10, I'd say it's debatable. They have their cupcakes -- Indiana and Northwestern. They only really have two teams that are perennial contenders for the NC -- Michigan and Ohio State. I'd say the Big XII has its two perennial contenders and then a few more "outside shots" than does the Big 10 in Nebraska, K-State, A&M. Laugh at me now, but A&M will be back this year. Francione basically sacrificed last year by redshirting most of the players that were worth a crap with the exception of their QB, McNeal.

I think the Big XII will be a very different conference this year. Not on par with the SEC, but it's starting to get pretty close. In 2-3 years, it'll be a much scarier minefield.

***

By the way, just watched USC drop to Cal-Berkley on ESPN Classics. Yeah, what a great team. Maybe they'll get knocked off this year by Arizona.

The Big10 is an enigma - the non-conference record is mediocre (similar to the big8, actually), but the bowl record is either superb or severely bad . . .think two years ago going 6-1 (one loss? #3 Iowa to a vastly superior "#4" USC team), then last year's 3-3 'showcase' . . . so yeah, I think the SEC is still top dog, no doubt.

The Big8's 2nd-tier teams just don't do it in bowls, and it's hard for me to put either conference on a pedastal until that happens; win when it matters. That's why you play the game, says Herman Edwards.

UT is pitiful - honestly, I'm done talking. It gets me upset.

The reason why OU destroys TTU? Same reason why other good teams destroy TTU: if you prepare for the system, and have a plan plus the athletes to run with them, you can systematically crush them. It's a 'lite' pro-style run and shoot, with fewer reads and generally weak-armed but accurate QBs. Pressure on the slow-ass QB, along with keeping your DBs at home in spite of some bizarre formations and motion, leads to things like "24-55, 270 yds, 2 tds, 3 ints, L" (just like every season against the sooners?)

For A&M I'll take your word, but I really think the talent level is down. Franchione is solid, but I don't know if the TCU system translates to the BigBoys(c). I like the guy, so hopefully it does.

USC is prime for a mid-season upset . . . Oregon State, perhaps? Maybe ASU, if they play in Tempe? We shall see.

The Big XII's 2nd tier teams got awful matchups last year. I mean, Kansas -- perennial bottomfeader that won a few games it shouldn't have got matched up with NC State avec Phil Rivers. No one was surprised when Kansas got mutilated.

TTU got a decent matchup with Navy, no complaints ;)

The Cotton Bowl was predictable. Okie State is decent, but against the Sigma Nu Athlete of the Year, Eli Manning-led Ole Miss, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

OU-LSU was a close game. Even with White's problems. Thompson should have played, OU's coaching was actually kind of bad. They were getting it done with the run, but once in the red zone kept going to the air...

Texas, WSU -- Washington State, a team that OU destroyed in the Rose Bowl in the previous year beat Texas. That was undoubtedly one of the absolute worst coaching jobs by Mack ever. I guess he's trying to qualify for the Football Coach's Special Olympics.

K-State v. Ohio State was yet another unfavorable matchup. Add the fact that Ell Roberson was on his coach's shit list for his stupidity prior to the game and again, foregone conclusion.

Nebraska won their bowl game... not sure who it was against. All I know is that OU got Pelini after that :D

***

This is why it's tough to rate conferences based on bowls. Too many external factors, too few games, sometimes crappy matchups. I think the Big 10 has a couple of good teams, but is nowhere near as deep as the Big XII.

That being said, I just watched the '77 OU v. Ohio State game. OU won 29-28 on a last second FG in the 4th as time expired -- down to their 3rd string QB and true freshman 2nd string RB. Best part was watching the placekicker lead the OSU crowd in the "block that kick" cheer after Woody iced him the second time:D

One more frickin day! I'm tired of the previews and call in shows. I wanna see some football.

Let's see...Indiana won today!

AND NOTRE DAME LOST! HAHAHAHA! :D :D :D

LSU nearly lost to an unranked team. That should drop them a couple slots in the poll probably.

I don't know. Rain like that can be a HUGE equalizer. Remember when Louisville beat FSU a couple of years ago?

I called it. LSU dropped to 6th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5921671/

The Top 25 teams in the Associated Press poll, updated through Sept. 4, with first-place votes in parentheses, records, total points based on 25 points for a first-place vote through one point for a 25th-place vote and final 2003 ranking.
1 Southern Cal (51) 1-0 1,609 1
2 Oklahoma (10) 1-0 1,548 2
3 Georgia (4) 1-0 1,481 3
4 Florida St. 0-0 1,326 5
5 Miami 0-0 1,306 6
6 LSU 1-0 1,292 4
7 Texas 1-0 1,276 7
8 Michigan 1-0 1,260 8
9 Ohio St. 1-0 1,012 9
10 West Virginia 1-0 987 10
11 Florida 0-0 840 11
12 California 1-0 839 13
13 Kansas St. 1-0 732 12
14 Tennessee 0-0 662 14
15 Virginia 1-0 642 16
16 Iowa 1-0 578 19
17 Utah 1-0 570 20
18 Auburn 1-0 552 17
19 Missouri 1-0 535 18
20 Clemson 1-0 490 15
21 Wisconsin 1-0 346 21
22 Minnesota 1-0 259 25
23 Maryland 1-0 195 22
24 Oregon 0-0 181 23
25 Purdue 0-0 131 24
Others receiving votes: Nebraska 92, Louisville 89, Memphis 80, Boise St. 60, N.C. State 49, Oregon St. 34, Oklahoma St. 16, TCU 14, Washington St. 11, Alabama 9, Penn St. 7, Arkansas 3, Southern Miss. 3, Boston College 2, Fresno St. 2, Mississippi 2, Rutgers 1, Stanford 1, Virginia Tech 1.

Good call.

How's Valdosta State looking this year. So far, Central OK has destroyed every team they've played. I'm just concerned they haven't played anyone yet.

They go to Tarleton on Saturday, that should be a good test.

Wes Welker- San Diego
BJ Symmons- Houston
Zach Thomas- Miami
Kliff Kingsbury- New England
Sammy Morris- Miami
Marcus Coleman- Houston
Montae Reagor- Indianapolis
Carlos Francis- Oakland
Joselio Hanson- San Francisco

Oh and by the way, we beat Texas two years ago, and last year we lost to them by THREE points. Tech has a very good football team. Losing to Oklahoma means nothing really. How many teams in the Big XII can actually say they have beat them? We have been to 4 straight bowl games (the only team in the Big XII) winning the last 3. We are the only team in the Big XII to have a winning record each season. We have also beat A&M the last three consecutive years, but you know, we are not their rivals.:rolleyes: