It's only right that you'd be 'very disturbed' as you are one the people I have the least amount of respect for on here. No futher discussion is necessary.
:cool:

I love you too, baby.

I'll be home about 8 and we can talk about it at that time.

Until then....(you know the rest) :cool:

Did you really read what SKEEphistAKAte posted? How was she being disrepectful in what she said?

*SMH*

I think people have suffieciently covered this but I don't want it to be said that I ignored your question SO... I think it is very foolish to join anything that you are not knowlegeable about. I understand that outsiders do not know EVERYTHING, but who is saying they should? I agree with the comment about if an org is based on Christian principles, why is it necessary to be a member to know what those principles are? That is not necessarily secret, the member said the org was based on Christian principles. So if someone observes the org doing things that are not Christ like (as stated in the Bible) then are they judging or are the correcting? Judgment is being thrown around a lot on this thread and personally, I don't feel that I've judged anyone. I have damned anyone to hell for their decisions and I don't see where anyone else has, but yet people are saying they are being judged... why whom?
If you go into a job interview, the person interviewing you expects you to have some knowledge of not only what the company does and the position you are applying for but the company values and goals as well. That is where research comes in. You don't necessarily have to be in something to fully understand it either. Some people are blessed with a gift called empathy... I can usually place myself in someone's shoes and while I may not know exactly how he/she feels, I can come fairly close.
The Bible also says man judges the outward appearance while God judges the heart. With that said, one could argue that from observation (because we are human after) of behaviors and attitude of a group, a decision on whether or not the person is interested can be formed.
As far as asking questions... okay, umm, you can ask, but that doesn't mean you will get an answer (or an acceptable one anyway). If some asks a question and you say the answer is for members only, then you have not answered the question. Now that may or may not be the appropriate answer but the person who asked the question has no greater knowledge than they had before the question was asked. Now I pose a question to you... how would you respond to an interestee who did not know the values, goals, principles of your org but was adamant about joining?

First off, the church comment was wrong, not only to me, but as other people have said it is offensive. And whoever said let the real church say "Amen" What is your definition of a real church? Is it one in which everyone is accepted and no one is ever corrected? Is it one in which everyone minds their own business while the person next to them is going to hell because no one cares enough to help minister them out of sin? Oh no, I bet its one in which the church gives out tons of money to the community, preaches prosperity, that everyone will get into heaven and that fornication is okay as long as you are in loooooove.
Anyway back to this statement. There are many churches out there that are corrupt and when the corruption is exposed they generally fall. Personally, I have not been to a church that has had this problem, BUT I will say this... If I join a church and I notice the pastor coming out the store with a bunch of 40s in his hand, the first lady having sex with every other man in the church, a homosexual deacon and an organist who wasn't even saved, I would leave in a heartbeat. I love my church but I love God more. I am not going to let someone who cannot lead themselves to salvation, help guide my mission.

And why is it that people avoid issues by pointing the finger elsewhere? What is the point of saying that the church has the same issues? Does that divert from the things already mentioned on this thread about scripture in relation to BGLOs? I am to apply my thinking to the church and do what with it?

For the sake of argument, I will go with your statement that it does not change the foundation in Christianity and I will reply with this: Matthew 5:13 states "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. " What this tells me is that just because something starts out in Christianity doesn't mean it remains so. If it loses those Christian principles that it so proudly claims... what good is it for the Kingdom? So now since you commented that it doesn't change the foundations, the question becomes are the principles still valued?

ETA: My last question is in no way meant to be offensive, but since it was brought up, I'd figured I'd ask.

ETA2: The last question is a simple yes or no

Because for one, the church was not an issue. I really read what she said and to me it is an attempt to attack something that she feels I how dearly (beloved) just as she holds her org dearly. It's understandable though because as I said earlier when we point a finger somewhere else, we point 3 at ourselves.

But then you want someone to be respect towards you? Does humility apply only to those who seek to get what someone else has? For me, I know this is not about me as a person (even though you have tried personal attacks), because we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

If a member says an organization is based on Christian principles, I feel that that is enough information for you to decide whether or not you would consider joining. (Assuming all else is equal) If a member cannot confirm or deny Christian principles then, if you feel uncomfortable with this, this should also be enough for you to decide.

Many groups will not confirm or deny but will say "Hey, it's ok to be Christian and ZYX, I am and I don't have any issues" or even " We have women/men of all faiths and our ritual does not interfere with it" etc. If you can't trust someone that you could be calling brother or sister, you shouldn't call them brother or sister.

There's a difference between correcting a specific issue and making broad statements about the Christianity of GLOs in general and some in particular.


Yes, but that lack of an answer should allow you to make a decision. Same with an unsatisfactory answer (Uh no, actually our GLO requires a long oath to Satan and a vow to commit ritual suicide on 6/6/06) If you can't trust someone when they say "I'm Christian and a member and I find no conflict between the two" then you shouldn't want to call them a brother or sister.

<-NPC member here... it works a bit differently
Most of our members join without having complete knowledge of our values and goals but learn them as they go. They certainly don't know our ritual.

Even if my ritual was practically a church service, my GLOs mission statement may only say "Turning yesterdays girls, into todays women so they can be leaders for tomorrow" or something as generic as that. You would have no idea, and I couldn't tell you anything different.

/that's such a cheesy mission statement.

Because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was "wrong".

First off, the church comment was wrong, not only to me, but as other people have said it is offensive. And whoever said let the real church say "Amen" What is your definition of a real church? Is it one in which everyone is accepted and no one is ever corrected? Is it one in which everyone minds their own business while the person next to them is going to hell because no one cares enough to help minister them out of sin? Oh no, I bet its one in which the church gives out tons of money to the community, preaches prosperity, that everyone will get into heaven and that fornication is okay as long as you are in loooooove.

I know that many of you bible thumpers have a "holier than thou" attitude, but this is the first time I've heard the "my church is better than your sinful church" argument. :rolleyes:

What is the point of saying that the church has the same issues? Does that divert from the things already mentioned on this thread about scripture in relation to BGLOs? I am to apply my thinking to the church and do what with it?

For the slow, the point is that YOU are the one pointing fingers saying that the Greek system is bad and against the bible basically because of hazing. I was suggesting that you put in a little effort and see the correlation of how people in churches also do things that make the religion look bad but somehow that must be ok with you. Yeah, diverting attention= pretending that you didn't understand a simple correlation.

For the sake of argument, I will go with your statement that it does not change the foundation in Christianity and I will reply with this: Matthew 5:13 states "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. " What this tells me is that just because something starts out in Christianity doesn't mean it remains so. If it loses those Christian principles that it so proudly claims... what good is it for the Kingdom? So now since you commented that it doesn't change the foundations, the question becomes are the principles still valued?

Once again, apply those same arguments to your beloved and cherished church who I'm sure has somebody doing something against the bible as a member. And ask yourself your last question.

If I wanted to attack you I would have said "apply those same principles to your ignorant, hypocritical *ssed church." I don't mince words.

That's the difference in me and you people. I couldn't care less how you feel about me. This is the internet. I know that some of you haven't notice. You can quote scriptures all day and it will make no difference to any of my sorors or other fellow greeks who are handling business in their respective communities while serving god at the same time. And I think it is obvious that I am humble to people I respect on here, and SKEE is not trying to get anything from anybody. (I have my pearls and everything else I want.) The rest of you people are booty. That. Is. All.

You know what, the "real" church are those people who walk by the WORD and NOT argue and attempt to BEAT DOWN scriptures into someone's head regarding an issue! The word says to plant a seed, once that seed has been planted, someone else will come in a water it, there will be a harvest and GOD will get the glory! If nobody here is responding positively to your posts and/or this thread, maybe because it the method used! However, again, I say...let the "real" church say amen because they are the ones who know that they are living the life that God has set before them, they are the ones who are walking in the blessing, they are the ones who are walking uprightly, they are the ones who are walking in the veracity of God's Word, they are the ones who are a TRUE reflection of God, they are the ones who know when to leave well enough alone, they are the ones who are feeding the hungry, helping the sick, etc., they are the ones who aren't quick to point fingers to say doing that is wrong and this is right...

Come on now, you say you are a Christian and that you Love God more than you love sin, but do you realize that when you are JUDGE someone and their organization, you are doing just that - SINNING!

Re: Psychological Issues
 

How can you make a statement that BGLO's haven't done anything for the black community but cause more damage? What about the services and the work that they do in the very community that you have said they have damaged. Every organization, greek affliated or not, has the potential to induct members who aren't Christian, who aren't doing the "right thing", companies hire people who don't reflect their mission or morals, yet they strive, yet they still do the things that they originally set out to do. So I take offense by your comment that "GREEKDOM" is looked as something that has hindered society when in fact it hasn't...it is and it will remain to be a help for people, it will continue to strive forth and render SERVICE TO ALL MANKIND (no matter what you or anyone else thinks about it).

PS...What are you doing to help out the "black" community?

One may say that by you making the claim as to who is or isn't the "real church" means that you yourself are judging others - which isn't that the exact same thing you accuse Strongbeauty of doing? :confused:

The "real church" most definitely does include what you've posted above, but it also includes accountability which is what you're confusing with "final judgement/condemnation". You can't leave that part out because it makes you uncomfortable, is concerning something that you want or if won't win you the approval the friends.

If you recall as a Christian, we are accountable to one another, which includes not causing others to stumble as well as to help other believers along their walk, which sometimes does include pointing out the sin in their lives ( Luke 17:1-4, Rom 14:19, Proverbs 27:17 - “Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens his friend's countenance.” ). (There is so much scripture concerning this that I don't have the time to post it all while I'm at work.)

By doing this that DOES NOT mean that you are somehow better or holier than the other person (because please believe it will happen to you). The intent is out of care and concern, not condemnation and I firmly believe this is the case for most believers who are both "doers" and "hearer's" of the Word.

We are definitely our brother's keeper.

ETA: dag on typos...

But seriously Strongbeauty, NewBee and anyone else could have came in here walking on pillows and speaking gently as a baby's whisper but the minute they answered the OP's question citing their religious reason, they would have received the same reception. People SAY they want honesty, but do they really?

Getting A Grip
 

I would like to cosign what Nupe For Life said, I've been a member
of OES for a very long time and there have been alot of people who have ask me is Masonic/OES Satanic? and more or less i had to educate them on the foundation of the orgs. I think its all about
perception and educating ones mind on the history of the BGLOS and Masonry/OES and for the record, my minister is an Omega and his wife is a Delta.;)