DZ: was that directed to me? I meant anything but NPC...sorry, I changed it...I know they are not honoary.

Dionysus sums it up for my campuses
 

Texas Tech and Texas A&M are pretty much as Dionysus describes below...

I believe any group that uses Greek letters are greek, however I dont consider professional or groups such as yours to the "same" type i guess.

Are you a secret society, i mean do you hold ritual that only initiated members see? If so it sounds more like your org is turning into or is a "social" GLO you just arent labeling it as such. Then I would say yes.

If not then I just dont think it is the same. But that is just my opinion and I think those orgs are good to have.

But yes I do consider you Greek.:D

Yes, SAI is a secret society. I wouldn't say we're "turning into" a social org, as we have ALWAYS had secret ritual.

As far as being social or professional, the government recognizes us as a social organization, although we have some professional aims. Of course, I realize that just because the IRS says "yep, SAI is a social group" doesn't mean that's the case on every campus!

Exactly, Fuzzie. I think the most devestating change would be that any women in both NPC and SAI would have to choose between their two groups. I'm sure SAI would be on the losing end of that, simply because (as this thread has brought to light) on some campuses SAI is "just" a professional group. If someone is in a really fun, really close AXiD chapter, and a relatively low-key SAI chapter, it's not hard to see which one they'll choose. We currently have over 90,000 initiated members. I can't imagine how many we'd lose over something like this. Unless NPC changes the rule and allows those in NPC and SAI to keep both memberships (under a grandfather clause), I'm sure we won't be applying for NPC membership anytime soon.

I have a question for my fellow service and music greeks.

From my observations, some service and music GLO's do STRICTLY service and music. Other service and music GLO's are actually SOCIAL hiding behind service and music letters. I admit, my chapter leans toward the latter (sp?) one. Possibly, that can be the source of my :confused: when it comes to boundaries. I just don't see the big difference between my organization and the rest.

How much do you all do that is service/music? And, how much do you all do that is "social"?

BTW I don't consider honor and professional (except DSP) GLO's as "greek".

We have four members of Delta Omicron in my sorority AGD.. two are executive officers, so I guess it is okay.

On another note, Farmhouse and Alpha Gamma Rho are both at my school. Farmhouse and AGR do rush with all the other NIC fraternities, because they are apart of the IFC. AGR still has a set percentage requirement of Agriculture majors in their chapter but Farmhouse doesn't. They have majors from all over the school and are actually one of the larger fraternities on my campus.

Ceres is on my campus, but because they are not NPC they don't rush with use, they only do it within the Ag. Dept. But, they are not exclusive to Ag majors, you can join if you are any major from what I understand.

Okay, I think I understand a little better now...

I think most of my confusion is stemming from that DO, at least where I went to school, functions as a social sorority and not a professional one. We hold formal rush and have absolutely no obligation to bid everyone that rushes. In fact the year before I pledged, we were trying to set up with the other social sororities on campus to hold our Formal Rushes together, but it for some reason it got voted down. We hold initiation and ritual. We are members for life. We have a clause that specifically states that we can not be a member of any other social sorority, although we can be in a professional or honourary one like STD.

I'm absolutely shocked that there are DOs that are members of other social sororities - like I said before, we were taught that that is not permitted per Inter/national, although maybe that's changed since I've been in college.

As to whether most of our activities are music based or social based...I'd say a good mix of both. We do most of our philanthropy work with music emphasis (ie. music in our schools month, etc.) but we also do other philanthropy (when we're allowed to!). We do a lot of socials, though, too, whether they be sisterhood events or mixers/formals with other organizations. I thought that's the way all the DO chapters were, but maybe not...

When I said that we can't formally deny membership, I didn't mean pledging requirements. What I meant was that we cannot deny membership based on subjective criteria. For example, if someone had a reputation (true or false) of being a "slut", we cannot deny her membership because of that. We don't "cut".

APO cannot deny anyone the chance to PURSUE membership. Whether they are successful in that pursuit is another matter entirely.

Exactly.

What?
 

All I have to say is the College of William and Mary. If you know the greek history surrounding that, there should be no questions as to who's greek and who's not.

Some things to think about.
 

I (the start of this thread) have thoroughly read all posts and have some thoughts on various things.

I think many of you have the wrong perception of SAI. SAI is NOT an honorary society. It is called a fraternity for women because it functions as a fraternity/sorority in that we have ritual, rush, pledging, badges, the whole nine yards. Yes, the "focus" is music...but we don't just have meetings, discuss music, and leave. No. We have meetings about musical things, of course; but we also discuss sisterhood activities, fundraisers, recruiting possible new members, etc etc. And when we have social functions, sometimes music is a theme...but usually not. We'll all go out to eat, or things like that.

We wear SAI shirts, carry SAI keychains and ID holders, and sport SAI lisence plates and decals on our cars. When we dress up, we always wear our badge with pride. How different is that than, say, an Alpha Gamma Delta chapter that the members wear the lettered t-shirts, carry AGD keychains and ID holders, wear their badges, and sport AGD paraphanellia on their cars? It's NOT different. Our chapter is very close, as are most chapters. We are sisters, we pride ourselves in being members of such a wonderful sisterhood, and maybe our focus is music...but as far as sisterhood goes, I can tell you right now we are just as close as say a chapter of AGD would be. My sisters are some of my best friends.

SAI is for life. There are many, many alumni chapters which work closely with the college chapters.

I get the feeling from a few of the posts I've read that some of you don't consider SAI greek because of the music part. And why? Because I can't TELL you how many social greeks on my campus have snubbed me because they consider music people as 'band nerds' and 'choir geeks'. One girl even told me that "band geek sororities are the joke of the entire greek community." :mad: Now please, don't think that I look down at social GLOS; I do not. I only look down on the certain individuals who have snubbed me and my sisters, as well as members of Tau Beta Sigma.

That's my two cents.

So being in orchestra makes me a nerd, eh?

They give me money to do it! (and I like playing)

Here's my feeling on SAI.... They could be considered on the same level as other sororities on their campus (or do you prefer women's fraternities?) but they don't apply to Panhellenic... (I'm talking out of my ass here so if I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me). Some campuses I'm sure would allow SAI to apply to be part of the mainstream greek community if they wanted to. But they don't. That's what makes them "not one of us".

But still greek.

Re: Some things to think about.
 

Though I am not a member of your fraternity, I know of SAI, and often converse with the members here at TSU. You and I both know that SAI is just as greek as any other fraternity or sorority. This also applies to my fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, and Kappa Kappa Psi, Tau Beta Sigma, and Gamma Sigma Sigma.

You don't have to explain your organization to NOBODY! You hear me. Keep doing you thing, and let others think what they may.