I love fraternity life now, but when I first looked into it I was not happy with what I saw. Now, I am in a multi cultural fraternity with a vast mixture of races and thoughts. Here, color is nothing to us. We have every race in our fraternity, even caucassion. Just my 2 cents.

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Dongkun "Papi Chulo" Ko
Sigma Lambda Beta Fraternity Inc. www.sigmalambdabeta.com
AB Chapter
University of MN
15 0f 27

(Soror Lovely Ivy-- I agree with you on whateva's, cleva and if you truly of Afrikan decent and ain't got no bruhs and sistahs as friends then you've got some issues. And your comments about excuses---RIGHT ON!!!)

For Sigmagrrl:

You seem rather young. NOT immature, just young. Some of silly questions cease importance when you get older and hopefully wiser...

Although I have a personal problem with those African Americans that decide to obviously reject their own and join organizations where I have seen "XYZ" fraternity and White Race on their t-shirts, I really don't have any kinda time to educate Black people on their concept of Asil, because, out here in SoCali, I'm worried about how I am going to pay for my light bill http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif--FOR REAL!!! But just like I said, it's my personal problem and I need to work it out on my own...

Some folks cain't see for lookin'!!! In fact when I discuss similar issues with "the most "vile" perpatrators of all that is racist--The White Males--for some reason they agree with me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif... And I'm talkin' bout the kind that call US out our names!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif Not the kindler and gentler--liberals... And for some reason I can make friends with these guys who are the Kard Karryin' Kind http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif... And it's usually when I'm talkin' 'bout Afrikans in amerikkklan, the utamawazo, the "Auset Papers" and sovereignty in the same sentances http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif... It don't make no kinna sense!!! It's irony at it's best...

But skeriously, I suspect you go to a school that is predominently caucasian--that is how you rushed your sorority... If your school is public, that means anybody can attend if they fulfill the requirements. So you basically get anyone attending. Most Black folks going to a public university come from a family background of "the first to GO TO College"... Since, folks come with their own cultural mores and family values when they are from the "ghetto" and see you--the assimilated object of the oppressors (kidnappers)--then, how can you expect them to EVER be nice to you?!?!? Especially when you are inadvertantly belittling their upbringing? Hell, they already get it from the police officers that just killed their friend!!! Why the HELL should they hear it from you, too? And don't tell me you have never said to a Black Man, "If only you just got off your butt and worked..." Because I know you have!!!

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited May 03, 2001).]

Sigmagrrl, just a question: Did you say you were raised around white people? I ask you this because I can seriously relate. I was was in all-white classes, had white friends, BUT my mother saw to it (when she noticed this at an early age) that I got a taste of OUR culture and enrolled me in different activities that exposed me to other black people. That helped me out a lot in meeting other people like me and getting to know my ethnic group. Again, this is when I was young so I really cannot imagine being "sheltered" like that and then going off to college & trying to "fit in" at 18 or older. Not saying that "you're too late" or anything like that, but I was just curious to know if you were even exposed to black people?...not just as acquaintances, but involved in any time of social groups where you interacted w/ people of your own kind. Like someone said earlier in this post, if this is the case, I just feel like you were misguided. And I find it hard to believe that in college (where people are supposed to act like adults) black people are shunning you like they are. Shame on them. I know you're tired of trying, but I cannot stress the importance of knowing your culture and history. And how will you know that if you are not around people of your culture? How will you know where you're going if you don't know were you've been?

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*someday...if it's in God's will*

[This message has been edited by NOWorNEVER (edited May 04, 2001).]

As an African-American in an NPC sorority, I don't feel as if I'm ostracized from the black community at my college. I guess it depends on what sort of school you went to...I know at mine (Ivy League "progressive"), most of the blacks came from backgrounds similar to mine--we were raised in upper-middle-class predominately white areas, but had parents who instilled in us a certain pride in our heritage. There are people who didn't receive the latter, and they're pretty messed up now. I think it's the security in my heritage that I had growing up that made me feel less self-conscious in joining an NPC group. I rushed because I liked what I saw the sisters doing at my campus and in Providence, whereas I didn't see the NPHC groups doing all that much. Plus, I really hit it off with the chapter last year (FYI, we have about a 50-50 white/minority population in my chapter) and I felt comfortable there. Maybe I would feel even more comfortable as an AKA or DST, but that is neither here nor there. I don't feel as if I'm shirking my racial heritage--I'm involved with other activities on campus that are primarily African-American in nature--just not a Greek letter organization.

For the person who said that if a chapter of an NPC group isn't predominately white, it isn't really a "WGLO". Yes it is. People are still going to associate your group as an "WGLO", because of its name, where it's located, or what groups you socialize with on a regular basis--not to mention the national affiliation.

I would get into this more, but I have this stupid model (due Monday) that I have yet to do past the foundation. Grrrr....

Now that I just spent a year reading this thread, here goes:
It must depend on your campus. ECU doesn't have all nine NPHC organizations so pickings are slim for undergrads(2 soroities and 2 Fraternities). But NPC and IFC have some mixed chapters and no one cares, it's not an issue here.
I do have a problem with someone posting that NPC/IFC members only choose a chapter. That is 100% untrue! Some uneducated potential new members go with the flow, but women who have prepared for recruitment have usually looked up each organization.
I am a Kappa Delta because she is a GREAT organization, not because I happen to like Gamma Sigma chapter. I do think it is more difficult for a NPC women beacuse we cannot always join as an alumna so we do have to suck it up and join a college chapter even if we don't fit. That may be a reason many NPC women choose a chapter not a national organization, they are forced into a corner amd choose a good fit, but what NATIONAL organization you choose can make a HUGE impact on your alumnae life and how productive you are in college. It also has to do with legacies, sometimes they are DIE HARD and have to join a certain organization!

I see that several NPHC members have brought up the fact that the predominately White Greek letter organizations had a past filled with racial discrimination. Most can't fathom why an African-American would want to join an organization that wouldn't have given them the time of day 90 years ago. Likewise, I have wondered why a dark-skinned African American would want to join a BGLO that once used the paper bag test. Hell, 90 years ago, the BGLOs wouldn't have wanted them either. Especially if they were the descendent of share croppers, like me. I think the discrimination enacted by the BGLOs is worse than the discrimination enacted by PWGLOS, but that's just my opinion.

I do realize that things have changed drastically since 1906 and 1908. Such things do not happen anymore (I hope) and somehow, people are able to either overlook this ugly part of their organization's history, or it was never an issue for them in the first place. My question is this, if African Americans realize that things are changing within their own organizations (with respect to skin color and social status), why is it so difficult to realize that things are changing in the predominately White organizations as well (with respect to racial diversity)?

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited May 05, 2001).]

Midwest:

Different chapters of almost every BGLO used the paper bag test. Universities were known to use the paper bag tes. MOST social clubs used the paper bag test. So if you wanted to be in a BGLO that never used it, well none of them used it officially but we are all guilty.

The real question of how we hanle ourselves is whether or not we use it now- just like with HWGLO's. If they're not discriminating now, then I have no problem with people who choose to join them. Every org has had it's less wonderful times.

Thank you lovelyivy84. For the most part, I find your post to be refreshing. Although, I don't think the fact that other institutions using the paper bag test is an excuse for fraternities and sororities to use it. There really is no excuse. And though I'm aware that all of the organizations are diverse nationally, I have seen chapters of certain organization in my state, where every member has a certain "look". Progress still needs to be made in this area.

As far as your feelings about HWGLOs today as opposed to 90 years ago, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don't think that most members of the NPHC see things the way you do. If they did, some of the comments I have read here on Greekchat would not have been made. Thanks again. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited May 05, 2001).]

Thanks Midwest

I did not intend to excuse those discriminatory actions by any means. It was wrong, point blank. I just wanted to note that it was, for that era, the status quo.

There is no excuse for that kind of behavior in the here and now. But I agree, I too have seen certain chapters of different orgs that make you go "hmmm.."

As for the whole NPHC v. HWGLO thing that is to my mind a product of a lack of knowledge about each other. Like most NPHC greeks don't know that HWGLO's have alumnae chapters just like we do- making HWGLO's nothing more than social clubs in their mind. Add to that the rather unsavory social stigma (drinking, etc) of things that are not problems with our orgs (not that ours are problem free by any means) but that we STILL seem to get blamed for (since most white people cant tell a BGLO from a WGLO, they think we're all the same), and people think they can throw rocks.

We just need to make an effort to know and understand each other, IMO.

Just to get my two cents in......
Although I do not know what it feels like to be a black/hispanic/asian women, I do agree that not to many women from that group seem to seek out Greek life. In our sorority we do have two black sisters and one Asian. NEVER have I heard any sister discrimminate or use the term "token" when discussing rush and potential sisters. I feel fortunate that the Greek system on my campus is open to anyone and everyone who wants to experience greek life. I just wish that women who are not caucasion would be more informed about sororities and the fact that at least here in Nova Scotia, there is absolutly no colour or more important, no DISCRMINATION barrier at all!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif People join fraternities and sororities for a reason and that is to learn and grow, make friends for life and have fun during their university life. In the year 2001, why would Greeks discriminate and harass?? It just doesn't make any sense to me..and I could get really "riled up" if I continue...so I'll stop!
But many good points from those who have posted! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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Sarah
Sister Lots-a-Heart, #9
President, Iota Beta Chi Sorority
http://welcome.to/iotabetachi

Hi there,
This topic really upsets me, but maybe that is because I live in Canada, where there is nothing as a "white" sorority. All our sororities and fraternites are multicultural, which reflects upon Canada, the most multicultural country in the world.
I think that it is sad the "land of the free" is so racist!!! We do have a few frats that cater to those people who would like a frat geared to their ethnicity or religion, but not a "white" frat... It still boggles me. I am Tri Delta at the University of Toronto which is a very diverse group, we have Christian, Hebrew, and Atheist etc, white, black, asian, filipino, greek, irish, italian, french and the list goes on... Maybe the "land of the free" should try and work on their slogan!

True, but the past is the past! Now is now. The future is the future.

Canadiandeltagirl,
Ok, I wasn't going to respond to this topic anymore b/c this is a flat out dead conversation. We've been up and down and all around the mulberry bush w/ this one.
BUT, I cannot let you (or any other non-American) person sit there and call America racist! Um, yes we have issues. I live here and have lived here all 22 years of my life, so I KNOW we have issues. Not to mention the fact that I am African-American, so I KNOW how some people can be! But damn, to just generalize America and all Americans as such is flat out rude and ignorant! Now, that's fine and dandy if Canada is all roses and sunshine w/ multiculturalism bursting everywhere, but do not criticize what you really do NOT know about! Have you even lived here? Have you gone to school here? Do you even have American friends? If you've answered "yes" to any of these things, then maybe you have some basis to what you said. But even I as an American would not call my country racist b/c I KNOW not everyone in America is that way. I for one am NOT!


As far as the frat/sorority situation goes...I am not going to even comment about it b/c obviously you have NOT done any research about why there are Historically African-Am, Latino/a, Asian, etc fraternities and sororities in America. So I suggest before you start generalizing and calling America racist b/c we have ethnic specific fraternities and sororities, take a look at some history books and websites about the start of these organizations and then holla at me.


*WHEW! Please don't let me have to come back in here!*




[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited May 05, 2001).]

Whew...do I even dare to follow ZChi's post? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

First of all, I think this topic has gone way off course...but,

CanadianDelta...it's very sad to see that you think of America this way. Before you continue generalizing my country this way, think of this:

I am a daughter of a Filipino immigrant mother and in total I have five different ethnicities. I am a member of a HISTORICALLY WHITE Greek Lettered Organization. However, in my sorority we basically have EVERY KIND OF ETHNICITY REPRESENTED. Across America you see many cultural-interest GLOs popping up everywhere! One of my best friends is a aKDPhi, one of the largest (if not THE largest) Asian-interest sororities in the nation! Contrary to what people say, GLOs like aKDPhi don't segregate, they want to give people an opportunity to be aware of Asian/MC interests, and I really don't see anything wrong with that.

It really pisses me off to see you call my country racist. I know racist people and I know there are a lot of them out there, but you have to realize that they don't represent the country as a whole. Of course, you wouldn't know that because you probably never lived here. In my 21 years of life I have never ever experienced racism in all the cities I've lived in. Some of my proudest moments are when I'm able to share my culture and my heritage. You'd be surprised as to how many people are interested in the Filipino/Japanese/Hawaiian/Hispanic/Russian culture.

And yes--America does live up to "the land of the free"...just ask my mom and she'll tell you all about it and how she fled Ferdinand Marcos' dictatorship. Many immigrants come to America in hopes of fulfilling the American dream...and when I do graduate with that degree, I'll be fulfilling her American dream.


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"Stress is toxic. It's a poison that makes me wanna throw up."--Me, on the aftermath of the UHPA Professors' strike

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