AlphGamDiva,

I admire you for your tenacity and would really like to hear some information about adoption. I know many people say all these children will be adopted-will they really? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and go adopt a child now? I know there are plenty out there RT AT THIS MOMENT that need a home-can you do this? People are so quick to say these things but then don't research the facts or help out by adopting. I wish that every child was adopted, how I wish this, but it does not happen.


Can anyone that thinks adoption is the answer give us some statistics I would really like to know.

JAM,

Sorry that it took me a while to respond to your post. I wasn't near a computer during the holidays. :)

If you were put off by my response to your post, then I sincerely apologize. You posed two serious, thought-provoking questions in that post, and that's why I responded to them. I didn't realize that you intended the questions to be rhetorical.

You're right about my arguing the points that you made. I was, like you, offering my side of the issue and I felt like it would be easier to convey my ideas if I took your points one by one and commented on each of them individually.

Once again, I wasn't trying to be insulting. I was only countering your comments with questions that I found to be valid, just as you did in your post. I did not mean to offend you. I think you are a wonderful contribution to GC and I respect your thoughts although I may not always agree with them. :)

ok, i never meant to imply that all children put up for adoption will be taken home...i want to apologize early on if i have offended anyone b/c i only meant to express my opinion...i just now feel that my thoughts and ideals have been attacked b/c i had no footnotes to justify my belief that adoption is the better alternative.
i just think that because a woman does not want to keep her child, it does not mean she has to kill it, either. when a woman becomes pregnant, she has 3 options: to keep, to give up, or to abort. i do not understand why so many people decide upon the latter...there are millions of people out there wanting to adopt children. again, the exact number and statistics, i am sorry, but do not have. but i do know that there are people who are on waiting lists...and one can only assume that a waiting list implies that there is a demand for something there is not enough of. and yes, most of the people wanting to adopt a child want a neat and tidy white baby...and those are definitely in short supply. but that does not mean that the other children are any less significant, or wanted...or that anyone has the right to pre-determine whether the lives of the other children will be so horrible that we should take it upon ourselves to "save" them. AlphaChiS2K, i don't think it is any more "morally responsible" to take a life before it has a chance to live it. i was mentioning adoption as an alternative to abortion, that was all. i do not mean to seem as if i know all the numbers of foster care deaths and orphans in the world...but i do know that to let the person determine his/her own fate is better than someone killing him/her early JUST IN CASE.
i wish that the norm was for all pregnancies to be wanted ones, and for every child left without parents that there were parents to take it in...but there's not. reality is a harsh and cold place. i consider abortion to be murder, and i guess that is where pro-choicers and i clash...so in seeing it as murder, i don't think we should have it legalized. just like you don't want ted bundy able to kill innocent people, i don't want mothers killing their unborn. and it is not just the mother's body...it is her child's, too. i fail to understand why that is always overlooked. and aggieAXO, i DO plan on adopting my children, and will do so as soon as i am not still so dependant upon my own parents. if there was something that was in my power to save all the children put up for adoption or in bad foster homes believe me i would do it...until then, i am trying to save the lives of those who have yet to be born. there is no one who can say that a person born under bad circumstances cannot rise above it all and do great things. how many people do any of you know who are adopted? i know several, and i count my blessings that their biological mother had the courage and strength to have them and then give them up. every person you know has an impact on your life in some way or another...why deprive people of that simply because you THINK they will have a miserable existance? i don't think it's "socially responsible" to deny society of a potentially great person.

Monica

Don't want babies? Then don't have sex. Now, that's what I call a woman's right to choose. IMHO, of course.

Now, if a mother PLANNED on conceiving a child, and some health problems occur, then the story changes.
IMHO again, it is best to try to keep the mother
alive and abort the child.

Some people (who are often stereotyped themselves) need to keep the pro-life stereotypes to a minimum. Probably, less than five percent of pro-lifers believe in blowing up abortion clinics. At least me, my family, and some of my friends don't.

Less significant? Never. Less wanted? Unfortunately, this would appear to be the case :(

Monica, I am really glad to hear that you plan to adopt some of these hard-to-place children. You're putting your "money where your mouth is", so to speak. I believe that if more of the more outspoken "right to life" people opened up their homes to the unwanted children, their message would carry much, much more weight. Instead, a lot of people view them as being all talk and no help, because they want these children born and then aren't willing to take any of them in. That definitely makes them less credible.

I am prochoice, for a lot of reasons. There were too many women killed in back alley abortions when they were illegal and that doesn't do anyone anygood. I don't believe in abortions after the second trimester, though.
I was born and raised Catholic too. I just feel that a women makes a decision and that is none of my business. The trauma of a rape can make a woman not go to the hospital for medical attention, not because she doesn't want the attention, but
1. Insurance will not cover it unless you file a report with the police and most women do not report their rapes,
2. Most women feel that they are at fault for their rape and feel ashamed so they do not want to admit it.
There are a lot of reasons I believe abortion should be legal.
I don't think it is the best thing in the world, but that is for that woman to decide. God alone decide what is right and wrong, not me so I choose to leave it to her to make that decision and it is her soul and life that GOd looks at. It is between them.
That is just my take.

I don't see people who are pro-life and not adopting as being "all talk and no help"...there are plenty of ways people try to help the situation other than taking 5 kids in at a time. Some people, like myself, aren't financially stable enough to get past the red-tape of the adoption process...which makes it difficult for them to adopt. So, we try to voice our opinions, get laws passed, etc., etc. to help those without voices. That is sometimes all pro-lifers can do, ya know?

and just b/c a child is not adopted does not mean it is unwanted...there is probably an obscene amount of people who would LOVE to have that child in their home, but cannot afford to do so. but b/c the child is a financial strain does not mean the life should be terminated.

I love hearing everyone's opinion! It's interesting!
Monica

So it's okay for someone who is against abortion to not help out and raise a child because it is a FINANCIAL STRAIN? Don't you think the sanctity of life is more important than finances? Surely the other pro-life people can chip in to help out? Don't you think saving a life is worth going without the new car or the new clothes? Please don't make excuses for people who just run their mouths! Your beliefs appear to be similar to mine, so I can't believe I am constantly having to rebut you. Your lack of a credible argument is not helping the pro life movement one bit :( Maybe you should just stop before you really start to confuse yourself :(

Aaaaagh! This is the last time I read this thread. I never get emotional over GreekChat so I guess that means that it's time to tune out of this thread for good. Later, y'all!

Hmmm.... so people don't adopt because it's too much of a financial strain... they CHOOSE not to raise children. How is that different from the biological parents? Either way, someone's NOT CARING for a child.

And I'm sure that if you told all those lonely children in orphanages and foster care that someone would really like to adopt them, but it just costs too much, they'd feel MUCH better.

After all, it's the thought that counts, right?

aaaah! you ppl are absolutely killing me!!!!!! please, for one moment, try to take what i am saying as what i am saying, and nothing else. i am so tired of you all reading what i am so desperatley TRYING to say and making me out to be some stupid lil' right wing air head that doesn't have a clue what is going on! my ideals are just as important as yours...i have in NO way implied that any of the pro-choicers on here are IGNORANT or STUPID. i respect your views and realize that you have thought long and hard to obtain your opinion. in the same breath, i just happen to disagree, but that doesn't mean that i am any less valid in MY thoughts.
life is not expendable...no one has the right to choose when it is ok to take an innocent life simply b/c it is never ok. ok? this adoption thing is out of control...i am not saying "it is only the thought that counts" for the love of pete! adoption is another option that people should be more aware of. even those children who are, sadly but all too often, left in orphanages and foster care (note- not all foster families are abusers and molesters or only in it for the money, and not all orphanages are run by ol' girl in "Annie") can lead PERFECTLY NORMAL LIVES. and YES, for all that's holy, some people want to adopt but cannot do it b/c they are lacking the finances to even make it through a BACKGROUND CHECK THAT IS DONE DURING THE ADOPTION PROCESS...THE AGENTS TRYING TO CONNECT CHILD TO PARENT HAS TO TAKE A LOT OF THINGS INTO CONSIDERATION (finances being one of them...and money is a big deal b/c it is often regarded more highly than a home with both mother and father-ex:rosie o'donnell)...SOMETIMES THE COUPLE JUST WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. geez, ppl. and it IS different from the biological parents, AlphaChiS2K, b/c they are not CHOOSING to KILL the child.
the difference is that people who choose abortion are choosing to end the life of their child, partly b/c they believe the child IS better off dead, but partly b/c it WILL require more work on their part (meaing more work hours, less time and money for their needs). the people who choose adoption are taking a positive outlook for someone other than THEMSELVES...their child and its future.
i, killarneyrose, am in NO way trying to raise a child right now in my life...i am trying to keep a child ALIVE so someone else can and so it can at least have a shot at life. and that is all.

i am sorry for using all caps in there a bit, but you ppl are twisting what i am trying to say into something it's not. i do not want to raise a child right now, and i do not think that any pro-lifer who isn't raising an adopted child is "all talk and no help". i think that pro-life means just that, and not pro-"give me a kid and i'll do it myself". ok?

monica

Something that always confuse me
 

How can someone be pro-life, yet support the death penalty?

and

How can someone be pro-choice, yet reject the death penalty?

IMO, I think that is very incongruent (sp?), however I see those views very often.

curiouss, that's not as off as it sounds. abortion kills the lives of the innocent, whereas the death penalty is punishment for those who have committed a really serious crime. but i don't have any answer for the other.

the weird thing that i often see is that a lot of people who are pro-choice and fight so strongly for it, will fight twice as hard for animal rights (like they're against ppl wearing real fur and/or are vegetarians b/c they don't want to eat something that once was a breathing animal). i've never had that explained to me how some will look out more for the life of an animal than they will for a human. :confused:
**i don't support fur companies, just so ya know, but i will grub up on some meat**

Monica

Actually, I don't know a single pro-choice friend who protests for animal rights. Personally, I don't think that animals should be used in unnecessary experiments, but I do see the need for them in medicine. If it weren't for animal experimentation, we wouldn't have nearly as many vaccines and cures as we do currently. It's a necessary, although not especially pretty, part of this world we live in today. And that's the same way that I feel about abortion. It's not the only choice for everyone, but it is the necessary choice for some.

i just don't want to offend anyone...really. dzrose93, hope you don't think that I think pro-choicers are nasty little baby haters/animal savers...i don't! :) i just used that as an example b/c i do know of a girl from high school who was pro-choice hard core, but would not eat an egg "b/c it has the possibility of life"...some instances like that have just laid on my mind, i guess.

just wanted to clarify my thought!
:)

This is flawed logic. People aren't cognizant and self-aware until they're toddlers. Does that mean I can kill my child until he or she would be aware of what is going on? Using this idea dumping babies in dumpsters shouldn't be prosecutable-after all they don't really know they were alive.

This brings to mind another point of which we are all aware. The real debate here comes down to when life begins. Obviously we all believe that life means something different and that shades our opinions.

BTW I'm very impressed at how mature we all are!!!