what if they demand the badge back....and she says no

Playboy, Miss America, and Maxim might be offensive and exploitive to some people and a great career opportunity to others. Personally, I was in a beauty pageant when I was younger. I had fun and did not feel exploited. I was never interested in Playboy, not that they were banging down my door. :p
It is very common for actresses appear nude in film, on stage, and sometimes even in magazines. It's strange that a sorority would have one policy for college students who appear in Playboy and not for actresses who appear nude.

After reading these debates and studying psych of women, here goes.....

Yes, the female body is beautiful. We have all acknowledged that, male and female. But what is part of that beauty? The mystery of it! I know that I am more turned on by the site of a guy in boxers than I am seeing them naked. And that's why lingerie is so popular...because when it all comes down to it, many men like the mystery, the waiting, the anticipation of it. If you had the chance to see all of the great works of art, and you found one that really struck you...you may be left breathless by it's beauty. But if you were forced to sit there and stare at that same painting or whatever forever, would you still have the same feeling? Probably not. You would learn to take it for granted. It's the same to me as constantly being exposed to naked women or men. And wouldn't you be left feeling cheated if you found out that work of art wasn't an orignal? Yeah, that's how I feel when I see airbrushed women and men.

Going further, I'm sorry, but I feel that women who pose for these kinds of magazines have no respect for themselves. Part of what being a KD means to me is that as a woman, I should respect myself and my body. Respecting my body does not allow for putting it on display in a nude magazine. "Oooh! These girls have great self-confidence! That's why they do it!" Yeah, yeah...if they did, they wouldn't need to show everything to the world. I personally feel that I'm hot and my body doesn't need to be exposed to prove it to the world, because who cares what the world thinks! ANYBODY can pose nude...the internet has proved that....you don't have to be hot to do it. You just get paid more when you do it for Playboy. And what does the world call women who get paid for their body in the most basic sense? (Not saying I think women who pose are necessarily prostitutes, but whatever...)

"It's a great opportunity" FOR WHAT? To make your parents proud? To be listed as a famous alum as your sorority? (haha) A stepping stone to b-rated films, cutting the ribbon at a local used car lot, or modeling for a second-rate department store? I'm so sure that when I apply for a job, my credentials will be amplified that if I have a job listing as "posing for Playboy."

"Well Ms., you graduated 3rd in your college class, maintained a 4.0 average, were an exemplary member of Kappa Delta, active in campus activities, and YOU POSED FOR PLAYBOY!?! Well, let's just get you suited up for work at the FBI."
:rolleyes:

Ok, I may have not expressed myself coherantly or even on the topic. It's late and stressed and naked women annoy me. Take what I write with a grain of salt.

However....wonder if the girl who started the thread ever did pose?

HAHAHAHAHA... Moxiegrrl, you took the words (dripping with sarcasm and all) right out of my mouth. Thanks.

:D :D

Moxie.....Playgirl is still out there, but unfortunately it is hard to find. They still put the eye candy in there. But I agree with you, why is there so much for men to gawk at and so little for women? Even so-called "strip clubs" aimed at women are just guys dancing around in little speedos. Who needs to pay to see something you can see for free at the local gym?

DZRose, Lexi, et al......I agree with you that there are some publications out there that are truly offensive. I do agree that there are some depictions that degrade women and encourage a negative image....and it doesn't have to be a picture. That is another gripe I have about Maxim.....I think a lot of the writing is very degrading to women. But I don't think that there is anything wrong with artistic portrayal of a nude body presented for the sake of appreciation of the beauty of the human form. Let's face it, human beings are sexual creatures by nature. We are all stimulated by and irresistibly drawn to attractive members of the sex of our preference. What is the harm in admiring an especially beautiful example? Not to sound catty, but I have found in my 30 years that the women who tend to get the most indignant are either horribly insecure or downright jealous of the beauty of other women. Granted, some of the crap out there is abhorrent.....but not all of it. You don't tend to see guys getting all uptight about their women checking out the hardbodies in a magazine or going to Chippendales shows or dancing with the stripper at a bachelorette party.....it's because in most cases guys know that such things are merely visual diversions and not a threat to their own sexual appeal.

My guess is that there is so little for women because women just don't want it. I'm always hearing about how guys are so "visual" and really like to *see* women naked or scantily clad or whatever. I personally could think of 1,000,000 things I'd rather look at than a naked man who isn't my husband. It just does not appeal to me in the least. I don't even want to see guys dancing around in speedos (YUCK -- I don't ever want to see guys in speedos, anywhere!) or underwear or anything. I would never go to a strip club to see guys taking it off because that is just more information than I ever want.

I know there are women who do like it, but I have talked to other women about this, and most of them have agreed with me. What do you all think?

Truthfully, I think its all in fun. If you like it you do, if you dont you dont.
I was on a swim team so guys in speedos dont bother me (and some looked really good in them, im sorry im all about the athletic type)

Moxie...
but a lot of time in playboy they are positioned in a way that you can't see the um...goodie bag. So the mystery is still there. And sometimes, you like to slove the mystery

Valkyrie, you are right about the fact that not as many women are into the whole visual, right-in-your-face thing as men are.....BUT believe me, there are a lot of women who do like to see it and like someone else said, it's all in fun. I think also that a lot of women have just been conditioned to believe that it isn't "womanly" to be into such things, that the "baser" things in life are natural to men but not to us.....I think a lot of women are embarrassed by their own feelings and would sit there through a striptease blushing and avoiding making eye contact with the guy even if they were enjoying what they were seeing.

A lot of people are kind of getting upset by this whole thing and it is getting a little bit off track. Something that is important to remember is that although there are basic components of morality, it isn't something that is so cut and dried. And certainly, the ideals and moral standards that were in place back when most of our sororities were founded are dramatically different than those in convention today. I don't think any national chapter would be thrilled to have one of their girls doing a tasteless nudie layout and flashing her letters.....I was one of the first to say on this thread that my chapter, Chi Omega, would almost certainly revoke the membership of someone who posed if they found out about it. But to try and make general moral judgments here is out of line. I think it's great that people are so proud of their chapters and that they take the standards of conduct seriously....but not only are these standards subject to interpretation some of them simply don't hold up anymore. Can any of us honestly say that our members are all abstaining from premarital sex? Can any of us say that we don't have sisters who are fabulous assets, great students, etc. but who have engaged in a purely physical one-night fling? Can any of us say that among our numbers there aren't sisters who drink (underage or otherwise,) smoke, or engage in various vices that might be considered questionable?
Art is so very subjective that it isn't worth the time for us to try and hash it out on a GC thread....you will never, ever get everyone to agree on clearly defined peramaters of what is art and what is not. It's all about how a certain piece speaks to you....in his own day Picasso was considered by some to be an aberrant weirdo creating trash, not art. It isn't our place to try and say what is art and what isn't. If someone finds artistic value in something, that's all it is about.
I know I am getting long-winded here, but I just hate to see little flames sparking between people....there seems to be a definite division here, with two distinct "teams" emerging, and that isn't really a great thing. We've all got our own opinions, and none of us are going to make the things we don't like go away. Such is the society we live in. As long as there are hundreds of thousands of young women submitting pictures of themselves trying to get into Playboy, Playboy (and other publications like it) will continue.
I would like to offer one item for thought.....I am a mother. I have a beautiful little girl who is only getting more beautiful as she grows. One look at her tells you that she is going to be an absolute stunner when she grows up. I can't say that I'm sorry about this. Like it or not, beauty equals power in our society. We hear all the time about how men are exploiting women as sex objects, but in truth often it is the women using the power of their beauty to their advantage. I've got to say, I worry about a lot of things that are wrong with our world today as far as it will affect my daughter and son. But I worry about the safety of my daughter's "morality" far more in the setting of a fraternity party with her sisters surrounded by cute, horny, drunk boys than I do in her being self-assured enough to pose for a tasteful Playboy spread. Her virtue is in a lot more danger in that creaky loft than it is smiling out from the pages of a magazine.
Now let's all be friends again and let it go......by the way, anyone know if the girl who started this went for it or not?

33: I see what you are syaing, but see how she didn't mention she was in a certian group but we all assume she was an ASA b/c someone said so...and then it all began, no matter what group, she could really be a KD for all I know, but regardless it isn't the best impression for any NPC group. NPC groups have a hard enough time trying to show the serious side of sorority life without Animal House issues interfering and a playboy layouts of our members do not help our image as a serios part of society. When was the last time you saw in the local paper "Playboy Bunnies Feed the Homeless"...not too often. BUT I SEE YOUR POINT!

EricaXO: I agree we need to move on! but I still stand by the difference b/w art and pornogrphy. Picaso wasn't selling pictures behind a 711 counter with brown bag covers next to an issue of Jugs. And NO, we cannot police 160,000+ members , nor would I want to feel like we needed to but I hope that for the majority we were serious when we took our KD pledge to uphold our membership to the best of our abilities. Pre marital sex and so on isn't a public display distributed around the country. BUT WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND THAT'S WHY THE WORLD IS SUCH A FUN PLACE!


By the way, can someone explain how a half naked women, in bad shoes, on a kichen table next to an apple pie is taseful portrayal of women...I am sure the other pictures were more exciting but that's the only one I saw.

Where is the girl who started this whole thing anyway?

Can a woman walk down the road wearing no shirt and showing off her boobies? No.....she'd get a lot of crazy looks if she did. So, IMHO, that's nudity and not for everyone to see!

And I also think that the "mystery" should only be uncovered in private by a man who cares about a woman and vice versa. Call me old-fashioned.

For example.... ladies, what do you think when you see the "Girls Gone Wild" stuff? I mean, that is mostly breasts. Personally, I think "Drunk, white trash."

LexiKD: What about the classic "woman with fake boobs dressing up like a little girl even though she's about 35 and sucking on a lollipop." :rolleyes:

Girl's Gone Wild
 

Ok, because this thread is getting way to long as it is, and the girl who started this playboy topic seems to have popped off the face of the earth (we probably scared her to death), if its ok... im going to continue the girls gone wild topic in chit chat if its not already there :)

I worked for Tri Delta's National Headquarters and there were two women who posed and said they were DDD's. Their membership was revoked Nationally, and yes...we got a copy of Playboy, and checked it out.

Those were some not so bright Tri Delts. They might have gotten away with it if they didn't mention it.

Amen Brother :)