I'm told that probably due to the economy, the armed forces are seeing a big rise in numbers of potential recruits and they want to see diplomas rather than GEDs. I know several kids who went to boot camps last year who intended to enlist when they were of age but they had gotten GEDS. :(

One boot camp instructor told me that they may now focus on the kids getting diplomas through the credit recovery program that UGAalum94 spoke of above rather than getting GEDs.

Rapidly declining international rankings in math, science and technology would probably be the easiest to start with ... and there's simply no way poverty accounts for the decline.

There's no doubt larger societal issues are part of the problem. But that's no reason to throw our hands up and say "shit, man - society, you know?" Schools can be a part of the solution - an educated population starts to fight the problems that lead to poverty.

My guys aren't eligible for military. The boot camp program I was talking about is the Impact Incarceration program in Illinois. The idea is that first offenders, particularly young adults, can serve 4 months in boot camp rather than their sentence. They get discipline, etc. and help out communities in natural disasters as well. But in my experience they come out on parole and get back in the same shit they were involved in. The majority have ruled out the military either from a lack of desire to get shot at or an assumption they can't get a waiver. And most of them probably can't get a waiver anyway.

It's sad, some of them, the ones who are really trying, would do well there. But put back in their same neighborhoods they end up back with the same rotating set of people in and out of trouble. It's an extra tangle to the issue.

In PA the undergrad portion of your science/math Ed background isn't much different, and can be exactly the same, as non-teachers. You get a degree in that field, and then go on to get the MS in Ed. I know people who have go e both routes- people who focused on Ed undergrad and science majors who career-changed with a MS Ed.

Here in PA the market for STEM is going crazy due to the gas industry. We have a hard time keeping environmental regulators- they work for the state for two years and then go into industry and literally make twice as much. I imagine anyone who is in high schol or college, interested in STEM, is not considering the education field, and as the gap between pay outside and inside grows, we will lose the ability to attract high quality teachers in those fields.

Fortunately in education there will always be those who want to do the job despite lower pay and difficult work conditions. But I imagine a few years in a difficult school with increasing pay cuts may make leaving look much more appealing. Not to mention the "axe" of layoffs that is perpetually hanging over their heads. As a society we are certainly not making teaching a very appealing profession- from the mass villianization to the layouts, to the increasing size in classrooms...

It blows my mind that gym teachers make the same as physics teachers! I didn't want to insult anyone by mentioning that but it really is relevant to the argument. In regulation the state has started to offer pay incentives to attract engineers to work for them.

...and yet they have no problem getting shot at on the street. SMH...

To be fair, I hadn't asked them - though I might do just to see what they think - I suspect that most feel no particular loyalty to the government. The government locks them up, they don't see LINK (very few get any assistance besides about $200 a month in food stamps, they're living with family because even working they can rarely afford their own place, and they have a hard time getting hired.) as something 'owed' to them, they take advantage of it because it's there and because they have to eat. Military isn't generally brought up at all due to the restrictions against felony convictions (and possibly substance abuse issues), which all my clients have by nature of being on parole.

I get two responses about the violence 1) Stupid kids closing their eyes and pulling the trigger and 2) If you live the life you take the risks. And in their eyes they have to live the life, they have no choice but to live the life. And then there are some who live it because they can make more in an hour than I do in a paycheck.

My county sends more people to prison per capita than Cook County/Chicago does. It's not a good place to be for my clients.

Wow. This is why I advocate ROTC programs in junior high and HS- esp in high risk areas. Give te kids a sense of belonging, pride, camaraderie and a real future. Many will only wind up turning to gangs for the same things.

While I pretty much agree with you and would add developing leadership skills and earning a relatively steady elective academic credit to your list, I have a friend who is a pretty extreme anti-war leftist who really hates that JROTC programs are concentrated in high poverty areas. He feels like we're basically saying that poor and minority kids should be recruited to be cannon fodder.

Drolefille, I don't know what it would cost, but since high schools can transfer out of state credits it might be worth someone looking into seeing if the online Georgia stuff could be used where you are.

It certainly also seems like it would be worth it for the boot camps themselves to look at offering it or for youth probation programs to do it. It's an online computer program, so it's likely to be relatively low cost compared to any kind of in person instruction.

Personally, I think it's complete junk educationally, but for the 18 or 19 year olds, it's probably better than nothing.

This is yet another wrinkle, I agree but don't all at the same time. There's a reason why our military is made up of the population it is, and there is a big class aspect to it.

There are both GED and diploma programs in the area, but I don't get them until they're out of high school for quite a while, at least with 4-5 months in bootcamp and typically expelled from their school if not from the alternative schools as well.
Boot camps offer GED programs here, it's just that it's considered a privilege AND there's only a limited time in which to complete it. I really don't know whether Georgia's programs would be comparable, but my clients really don't have the ability to navigate that whole process (or at least 95-99% of them don't. And they don't have the money to pay for it. And I'd guess that you have to be a GA resident anyway for funding reasons.

Ultimately, and I hate this answer, it is so far outside of my job description I don't have any ability to DO anything about it. Most of my clients are capable of getting a GED, it's just that there's a decent number who wouldn't need it if they could just get a trade instead.

Well, I have pointed out before that some other countries only test the brightest and best to begin with. Remember all the press around the Olympics about the Chinese athletes who get labeled as athletes early on? They are taken from their homes and trained in special training camp-like places and some of them don't know how to read because they focused only on gymnastics or ice skating, etc. Some of my Chinese co-workers at my last job admitted that kids are tracked at early ages and only those with skills in science and math end up being educated in science and math.

Compare those kids to all of the kids here? Not exactly a fair or realistic comparison. In Michigan, even my co-worker's child with Down's Syndrome takes the Michigan standardized test. She can't read. She's 15. She can't even speak. She takes the test. It's nuts, truly.

While I don't think we should throw in the towel, I think that focusing on teachers is the wrong approach. As a nation, teachers are being attacked as if they are the biggest evil in the country right now. Makes me want to say to people "You go teach middle school for a week and see how it goes".

Your friend is quite misguided. At their core, JROTC is a mentorship program, their goal is really no different than Big Brother/Big Sister or the Boys and Girls Club. That being said, there will always be a high concentration of mentorship programs in high poverty areas because that is where they are really needed.

Lastly, referring to people who enlist in the military as "cannon fodder" is just asinine and offensive.

[QUOTE=UGAalum94;2077129]While I pretty much agree with you and would add developing leadership skills and earning a relatively steady elective academic credit to your list, I have a friend who is a pretty extreme anti-war leftist who really hates that JROTC programs are concentrated in high poverty areas. He feels like we're basically saying that poor and minority kids should be recruited to be cannon fodder.[QUOTE]
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Actually, expanding the JROTC program to include high poverty areas opens new opportunities to kids who just a few years ago would not have a chance to participate in JROTC. There used to be a two tiered cadet training scheme in which JROTC targeted private prep schools and "top drawer" public schools while schools serving poor and minority neighborhoods were targeted for the NDCC or National Defense Cadet Corps. There were a lot of mealey mouthed explanations regarding the 'why' of this two tiered system but the bottom line was that schools whose demographic makeup was likely to produce commissioned officer material got JROTC. Schools more likely to produce enlisted personnel got NDCC programs.
JROTC in inner city schools, in my view, offers a more equitable and balanced approach than the previous one that was heavily weighted towards keeping student pools seperate and not equal.
The existance of a Corps of Cadets in any school provides a structure which develops discipline, leadership skills, some valuable basic life skills, and a sense of belonging to something which adhears to a set of values and instills pride in its members. The military is not looking for cannon fodder. Rather, it is looking for soldiers and leaders. That is as true now as in peace time or any time so long as we have a military.
As Plato remarked so many centuries ago, "only the dead have seen the end of war". So, it seems reasonable to give kids a sense of what they MIGHT have to deal with and a chance to get through it in one piece. The very basic level training received in JROTC can't hurt and surely can help in the challenges we all must face in dealing with life.
Now, the reality of JROTC is that it encourages college attendance which presupposes that four more years of education and its attendant maturity will better equip students for jobs and careers, and IF these students want to serve in the military they will be far more valuable as trained and educated leaders rather than the "cannon fodder" mentioned earlier. JROTC is neither designed nor structured to entice kids into 'signing up'. On the contrary, it seeks to shape and mold kids into solid types who are more likely to finish education and accept the realities of the world as it is and excell in it and not wallow the world of childish fantasy, rejection of structure and discipline, and expect to by some miracle become the beneficiaries of hopelessly unrealistic expectations.
Its a win-win proposition for kids in less than ideal circumstances as they are encouraged to stay in full time education, have the edge on being selected for Senior ROTC scholarships and Academy Appointments which provide subsidized education and a pay stipend at college level, and are offered an opportunity to serve in an honorable profession in a position of trust, responsibility, and authority. This obviously translates rather well to one's resume when looking to score an entry into a good job/career after service in the military.
My experiences in JROTC in the USA, Combined Cadet Force (CCF) in the UK, and Sr. ROTC at University were exceptionally valuable to me and I picked up some skills and basic savvy that I credit with being largely instrumental in my outfit getting back from Iraq with no one KIA. It has definitely helped me in dealing with the sometimes demanding aspects of my profession.

dekeguy
Captain(P), USAR

PiKA2001 and dekeguy, alas, my friend doesn't read Greekchat. He's more a protesting at the former School of the Americas than greek message board kind of dude.

I'm already pretty positive about JROTC, but I hope some other people read your messages!

Or you die or are disabled (Physically or TBI) and unable to work, or suffer from PTSD or commit suicide.

I don't think there's a real problem with JROTC but there are, obviously, very serious risks involved in the actual military. Particularly during a time when we're fighting multiple wars and have been at war for the past decade. It doesn't serve anyone to understate or ignore that.

[QUOTE=Drolefille;2077434]Or you die or are disabled (Physically or TBI) and unable to work, or suffer from PTSD or commit suicide.[QUOTE]

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Dulci et decorum est pro patria mori. Although I prefer General Patton's comment that the idea is not to die for your country but to make the other poor dumb son of a bitch die for his! [dekeguy]
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I don't think there's a real problem with JROTC but there are, obviously, very serious risks involved in the actual military. Particularly during a time when we're fighting multiple wars and have been at war for the past decade. It doesn't serve anyone to understate or ignore that.[Drolefille]

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Life in the real world by its very nature involves risk. Service in the military can be seen as about as risky as being a cop or a firefighter. The points one gets for service come not from cooling it in a nice safe place but going out in harm's way and taking responsibility and demonstrating courage, determination, and savvy.
With opportunity comes responsibility and with service comes a bit of danger. No one in the Army ignores or understates this. The more training, maturity, and savvy one can acquire the better prepared one will be. When one understands the risks and possibilities one is far better prepared to deal with the downside of it all.
As is the case with very many units which have been forward deployed my outfit keeps tabs on one another. I lost no one KIA but some of my troopers were wounded (I caught one myself). None of us have committed suicide, some stayed in the Army, some like Cincinnatus have returned to civilian life, all (I guess) have experienced some degree of PTSS but we deal with it, work through it, and drive on. Life is life, deal with it!
There is one other point which I think is worth mentioning. Through my readings and my Dad's stories of way back when, during the Viet Nam War, I found that ROTC was excluded from very many schools and universities. The recruiting pool was very limited and the services had to lower standards for selecting leaders. It is apparent to me that this situation brought about Lieut. Calley and the Mei Lai Massacre tradegy. Unprepared leaders not ready to lead and command and take responsibility for what they and their soldiers do or fail to do! So, I believe that JROTC begins the process of forming the leader who is responsible and able to command with some degree of wisdom and honor.
dekeguy