LOL. He was responding to about 3 posts.

It's funny because he wants to be a smartyarty but he's really in no position to do so. He's the one who doesn't know what he's doing and therefore he's the one who is out of his "territory." Afterall, he could just talk to members of his fraternity about this and they'd all be on one accord and in the same "territory."

Your position does make a difference- and a significant one. It is not about what you are trying to achieve, but about your powers to achieve it- both express and implied. You have a lofty goal to achieve- the degree to which you can force aspects of that versus have to win people over is critical to a successful approach. If you were an alumnus of the chapter with big money to donate, your methodology for achieving your goal would be quite different.

From the rest of your post- here is my take on your position.

First- you do not have the express power to do anything. Everything you seek to change will be 100% dependent on the acceptance of the brotherhood since you do not have any kind of authoritative or financial power to force change.

Second- from what you post, your implied power is quite significant. The chapter has taken you in as a transfer from a chapter with a very different approach to pledge education and given you a pledge education role. This is a great vote of confidence in you. Rush/pledge and social officerships are where things really happen for a chapter. Take pride in achieving such a role as a transfer, and approach it with a bit more objectivity and humility.

If you are looking for specific examples or pledgeship programs that are "no hazing" and successful- this is an impossible question to answer. See my earlier post asking you to define hazing. It differs everywhere, and this is not a black and white question. Someone may give you a cookie-cutter program all ready to go, but odds are it will not work. You have stepped up to the plate, and now you need to do the work to improve your specific chapter at this specific point in time with initiatives you have developed to address the guys you face at chapter meeting every week.

Let me please suggest you instead consider the following (and you do not need to necessarily answer publicly),

1. What do you consider to be negative hazing? Consider the key areas of learning lore, getting pledges to respect the brotherhood, getting pledges to "earn" their initiation, getting pledges to make good grades and also how the rush process can find quality men to eliminate the need to haze to weed out those who should not go through.

2. Make a list of the ten things about your previous chapter that you like which do not exist at your current chapter. Include everything- not just pledgeship practices. Give this serious thought. It should take you a week to really think this out.

3. Make a list of the ten things about your current chapter that you like and think improve on your previous chapter OR which are the same as for your previous chapter. As with #2- include everything, not just pledge training. And same time frame applies.

4. Compare the lists and see what you think. If you can find some common areas of agreement in the general brotherhood- then you have something to build on. If not, then do yourself a favor and walk away.

5. If, in #4, you can find some value in the active membership of your current chapter that you also found in your previous chapter, make a brief list of what you think your current chapter is doing right to achieve that end plus where they could make things better. Be specific and again- give yourself a few days or a week to think about it carefully.

6. Be realistic about the fact you will be in office for a year guaranteed- maybe more- and that you will be graduating in 2-3 years and have to trust your legacy to someone else. You will not be able to change everything overnight. And any changes you successfully make will carry through to the character of the brotherhood in general as pledges get initiated.

7. Given all of this, make a list of the five most important SPECIFIC things you want to change about pledgeship. From those five, pick the most important thing- be it study hours or setting a specific boundary on some aspect of the pledgeship process. Then pick your top 3. From there you have the bottom 2.

8. Figure out what you need to do in order to get #1 accepted, and same with the top three, and also all five. Evaluate your odds of getting #1, top 3 or all 5 changed.

9. Move forward with the plan you think best in light of the time and interest you have to offer and the chapter support you think you will get. The former is very important. If you go in trying to change more than you can effectively change and then quit when it does not happen-then the chapter would have been better off if you had never come along at all.

This is why our question about your role and granted powers was important. You have accepted a noble task, but not an easy one. Just as effective change on your part can have a huge positive impact, so can ineffective attempts at change have a hugely negative impact.

You are in a position to be either the establisher of great positive change at your chapter or the person who helped make things even worse than you think they are now. The actives have given you this power. Remember that. Each and every one of them deserves your respect for putting the chapter's future in your hands with such a key position for someone who is currently something of an outsider.

My apologies...I should use the quote function more often than I do...no, that last post was not directed towards you....


I guess it was foolish of me to attempt a Greek life collaboration effort in regards to the new member process. My Nationals has a structure...but local chapters are encouraged to individualize their programs because they understand what works for one may not for another.

The basics are the same across the nation so the same message is provided, however, some chapters do things a little differently than others.

This was merely an effort to learn from others and ask "third parties" rather than to solely rely on learning from "within"

You know so much. You should go with what you know.

And, certainly, what works for one organization may not work for another ;)

Again -- why don't you try to implement the program from your chapter of initiation? Or at least pieces of it?

I don't remember saying anything like that. LOL

I do hope everyone reading understands though I am in a position to affect change, I do not want to, nor have I intended to force change. This is something I have been entrusted with and in turn, I am looking for a way to create a program that can be agreed upon by the current brotherhood.

EE-BO, thank you for your latest post. It is much appreciated and I will be taking some time over the next few days to sit down with a committee I have recently formed and use what you have provided as a resource.

I hope everyone reading these posts understands that I did not turn solely to this forum looking for answers. The obvious players that should be brought into the conversation (current brothers, alumni, nationals, and other chapters) are all a part of my discussion. I was just trying to think outside the box for other answers or ideas. Thank you to everyone that sent me a PM...they have all been extremely helpful.

To the naysayers, I am sorry that you cannot see this as a positive change not just for this chapter, but for Greek life as a whole. This group is wanting to change their image for the better...again, an effort in which they should truly be commended.

To those that are in support of what this chapter is trying to accomplish and were able to offer valuable insight, thank you very much.

Is there a reason why you're refusing to answer my question?

If you insist. What better way to show that the discussions with current brothers, alumni, national headquarters, and other chapters have failed/are failing than to come to GC for advice. A wealth of fraternity-based knowledge and experience going down the drain?

Dude is sounding real Summer's Eve.

It would be really fun if the OP is actually a national or state/local/regional officer for his fraternity and it is his task to think of some new non-hazing membership ideas for the entire fraternity (not just one chapter) to present to the national fraternity's board.

Therefore, he comes to GC for ideas from members of other GLOs because their experiences and ideas could be considered new for his fraternity. Then he would present these ideas as his own brain child. That would be fun. :)

Glad your question was answered. Welcome to the real world of GC. :cool:

You're full of good ideas today, Beavis.

Thanks...Butthead? :eek: