Question. If they go bankrupt, that doesn't mean the big three would be no more does it? Huge corporations file bankruptcy all the time and still survive.

Chrysler says it will not be able to come out of a bankruptcy. Their suppliers would also end up closing their doors, many of whom also supply some things to Ford and GM (like steel, glass, polymers, paints, etc.

Delphi, is a GM parts supplier that GM spun it off on it's own in 1999. They filed for bankruptcy in 2005 and have said that if GM files for bankruptcy they will not survive.

There is a chance it would whittle down to the Big 2 if Chrysler goes under, but from all the analysis, the parts suppliers going under will be the end of the American Auto Industry altogether.

This blog talks about the major differences in spending between Toyota/Nissan/Honda and GM and why the burden of health care is one of the big issues for GM.
http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/200...al-health.html


In the United States, GM paid $4.6 billion in 2006 in health care costs for 350,000 retirees. A lot of those retirees were employees who were downsized in a series of restructurings.

In an effort to whittle away at this number, GM changed its policies so white collar retirees have lost their lifetime GM health insurance and will be pushed into Medicare upon reaching 65, saving GM $1.5 billion. Health care for union retirees will be pushed into a UAW-administered trust—a Voluntary Employee Benefits Association or VEBA—into which GM will pour $33 billion.

Even with these changes, GM has a hefty, multi-billion dollar yearly bill in retiree health care costs it has to work through.

If GM doesn’t go bankrupt first.

The story’s different for Toyota in its home base in Japan.

In Japan, Toyota pays health care for its retirees for two years after they leave the company. That’s less than 3,000 workers per year. The health care costs are so small they don’t show up on Toyota’s balance sheet.

Then the Japanese National Health Insurance—the government-operated facility that covers the retiree and non-worker end of Japan’s universal insurance system--picks up the tab.
Japan is an expensive place to have a factory. When bonuses are factored in, Toyota and GM workers both make yearly incomes in the $60,000 range.

Even with massive exports of Japan-built cars, the Japanese operations account for about 1/3 of global profits while posting 50% of worldwide sales.

In the first quarter of FY 2006, Toyota’s home operations brought in about US$1 billion of its total profits of $3.23 billion.

That’s roughly what GM was paying per quarter on retirees’ health care.

ETA: I spent my morning at a Saturn dealership and on Wednesday or Thursday, I will be the proud owner of a ruby red 1009 Saturn Vue! I have done all that I can to help :)

what is sad is that the auto companys did it to themselves with a lot of help from the unions. they ignored the fact that people wanted to have more efficient vehicles and continued to make the gas guzzelers inspite of ourselves. the unions fought for higher wages and benefits and people not working getting paid. the saturn was a great idea and started as a basic no frills car made with a lot of plastic. now they are making them of metal and basing them on the same frame base as other cars of the same size.
corporate jets and huge executive salarys were one of the dumbest things i have seen but seems to be the norm for many in the business world.
all that i know who have a saturn are very happy with them and the designs are as good as any made, plus they are cheaper to purchase.
there has to be a bail out as much as i hate to say it to keep people working and putting money into the economy. if we the tax payer are going to foot the bill for this, there had better be some restraints and oversites on these companys stating with the banking system that is not using the money (ours) for what it was ment to be.

The shame of this all is that the American auto companies were starting to shed their reputation for building unreliable vehicles. About 8 years ago we purchased a Chrysler and the transmission went out at 30,000 miles, 42,0000 miles, then again at about 58,000. We looked at other vehicles both foreign and domestic and in our minds the American vehicles were superior in comfort and despite what had happened with the Chrysler we went American again with a Chevy. This Chevy has 120,000 miles on it and it has run beautifully with the exception of the transmission. Go figure. We have had to replace the transmission twice but I wouldn't trade this vehicle for another vehicle and I have no regrets for purchasing it. With the exception of the transmission the fit and finish on this vehicle is still solid. No squeeks and no rattles. I would buy a Chevy again when we have run this vehicle into the ground, but I have a feeling that will be years from now.

On another note....can Toyota and Honda not build comfortable seats? When we were shopping for vehicles 6 years ago it seemed like the models we tested from those companies had seats that felt like sitting on a rock. Maybe this has changed as of late...

has one looked to see how intertwined foriegn and domestic cars are? american car companys own a lot of foreign names and froeign companys own a lot of american companys. foreign name brands are made on american car lines, say ford and mazda for one example.

ford built the tuarais and it had a throw away transmission. great planning right? what is funny is that the japanese built seats designed for their smaller peoples bodys while the gun boat cars made in this country were built for floating along the highway and with speed. i tried a pontiac grand prix seat and could not sit in it as am broad backed. glad i did not buy one as had a friend who had nothing but problems with it.

people who have been banned repeatedly keep coming back to GreekChat.

excuse me? are you refering to me?

you are telling me that a person cannot say what they want to say on this site?

actually, you can take this site and do what with you want to do with it. i came on here to voice my oppinion and nothing else.

if you people are so paranoid,it is not my fault.

I dont think the American people are obligated to bail out private companies when it is the fault of the companies for having inept/corrupted management.

"A person" can. Tom Earp cannot. That's what "banned" means.

Smiley time! :) :confused: :eek::mad::rolleyes::cool::p;):D

It must kill Tom to have to concentrate so hard on not using the smilies and still not be able to figure out how he outs himself every time. :D:eek::confused::):rolleyes:;):p

Moderators, it's time to take the trash to the curb again.

Classic

Most of the southern states have foreign auto factories, not domestic. The exceptions being Tennessee, Lousiannna and Kentucky.

My understanding is that many southern politicians are against the bailout because the failure of Detroit will strengthen the auto industry in the south. The southern states have been attractive to these companies because of the lower cost of living, tax incentives, and not being unionized.

Louisanna - GMC
Mississippi- Toyota, Nissan
Alabama - 2 Hyundai plants, Mercedes
Georgia - Kia to open 2009
SC - BMW
TN - GM, Nissan
Ky - Toyota, Ford, GM

Tom, not sure where you're going with this...

To the fridge to go get some more beer...

Evil!! LOL