I'm becoming an Independent
 

I have grown absolutely exhausted by the in-fighting and 'poison pen' emails of the Democrats in this recent primary. My jaw drops every time a read something negative about a Democratic candidate or the party sent by registered Democrats.

The last election should have been a 'lay up' for the Democrats given Bush's record. Either Clinton and Obama will be better than a continuation of the Republican Party's leadership in The White House. I fear that if the in-fighting doesn't stop, John McClain will become President.

I am soooo tired of the Democratic Party now (after being active in it for literally half of my life), that after I vote in my state's primary - I'm becoming Independent.

Welcome to the land of Independents!

I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T....ya'll know the rest! :D

TonyB06, i was going to say the same thing:D Obama, the economy and Iraq are getting folks to the polls. those same three AREN'T getting Repubs to the polls or at least to vote for Repubs. w/McCain saying, in effect, that we may stay in Iraq for years to come may very well hurt his campaign. in 2004, people were ready to follow bush and stay the course. as has been shown in previous elections, the populace tends to stick w/the sitting president. detrimental or no, unpopular war or no, folks tend to go w/what they know. Kerry and Dems weren't able to change popular thinking. is it the Dems fault? um...i tend to blame the voters and the non-voters who talk mess. people believed that just as in 2001, bush will lead them through the war mess, just like we were led out of 9/11. plus bush is such the Christian and we need a Christian leader to fight these Muslims, blah, blah, blah. smart thinking would've said bush led us into this mess and he needs to go. instead, folks voted for another 4 years of nonsense. hence, there was no "lay-up", history and misplaced fear kept bush in. i daresay, no party can go up against them.

Being a registerd anything doesn't automatically tie you to the party line even when you go to the voting booth. I have been a registered independent since I first registered to vote on my 18th birthday over 20 years ago. I USUALLY vote Democrat but I have voted for an Independent party or Republican on occasion. Being an Independent has its pros - no 'guarantee' of my vote and no party crap - and its cons - not being able to vote in a closed state primary.

Besides, how do you know that the people sending the information are actually registerd Democrats? The only way you would know for sure is to look at their voter registration card! Heck some very venomous things about the candidates could be coming from the other party or even a so-called third party or other special interest...

I'm OK with not voting in the primary elections for the time being. In terms of the comments that I received via emails - they are coming from people who identified themselves as 'card carrying Democrats.'

So, I don't have to look at their voter registration cards.

Great Resource
 

I ran across a site that seems to do the research on truth vs fiction and appears to be referenced by BOTH Democratic candidates (maybe the Republicans too but I don't know). Take a look at http://www.factcheck.org/ to get the scoop and analysis, especially regarding the latest flack on campaign flyers.

Where is former Congressman JC Watts?
 

I know that he owns his own business now.

But I'm curious as to why the Republicans never elevated him to run for President?

He appeared to have all of the right credentials and was elected from Oklahoma (which is very conservative from what I understand). He also appeared to be the Black 'poster child' of the party at one time.

I think it would have been quite the interesting race to see him and Sen. Obama discuss various topics.

I have a question for all of you Obama supporters reading:

What is it about Obama's issues that you find so appealing? I am asking because those who I have asked about his stance on the issues couldn't give me a definitive answer that told me what he would do if he was elected. Most responses alluded to him bringing back jobs, bringing change (but could not elaborate on what those changes involved) or simply the fact that he was black.

I have been getting more emails and e-vites to attend Obama-oriented events, and I am really trying to find out why I should get behind Obama or what he is really all about because all I am hearing is empty soundbites with no substance to support it

Please help me out with this.

^^There is a lot of information out there about all of the candidates; I would suggest you research this for yourself. One good way to do that is by perhaps going out to his events and hearing his stances on the issues that are important to you.




I answer this as though you are serious and not trying to take a backhand swipe at Obama supporters.

I guess JC was reminded that althouh he was a REPUBLICAN, he was/is STILL a NIGRA! :rolleyes: Therefore, when he saw there was no chance that he was going to be the Repub's poster child for Black Repubs or he was not going to be a key figure in the party, he reverted back to Oklahoma and away from politics.

Oh well!

I am not looking for information from the candidates themselves; I am looking for why he is getting the support he has been from those who are actively supporting him. I have heard nothing of substance from the candidate, which is why I am asking the supporters.

That is not my goal (taking a backhand swipe that is); again I have been getting asked repeatedly to attend this event for Obama and that event for Obama, especially from NPHC orgs. I want to hear from those who support him why I should support him. I am not going to say that I will ultimately support him. I just want to get an understanding of what issues he stands for that makes him so appealing from those who support him.

Then may I direct you here, for one example of why an Obama supporter is an Obama supporter based on the health care issue: http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress....y-to-railroad/

That's the best I will do for you, and I don't know if anyone else on GC is going to engage your questions for reasons that have been articulated ad nauseum.



Perhaps, knowing you, people just don't feel like making the effort to convince...

Yeah. The messenger makes a difference to some extent.

What matters even more is the reason behind why someone needs to ask supporters why they support a candidate. I always felt like people can choose to tell you who they support or not. They certainly don't have to tell you why they support a candidate. As long as they know this stuff, that's all that counts. Every person has to "research" a candidate on their own and make the decision of who they want to support (I do not support any particular candidate until I'm damn near headed to the election day polls). The threads that we've had on GC have included great info on almost every candidate and some people have chosen to share why they support a candidate (often in response to people questioning the candidate's president potential).

Exactly, a person does not need to justify her choices to anyone but herself, and I certain would not feel pressed to explain myself to someone who ultimately is not interested in what I have to say, but rather whether what I have to say meets his/her standards of significance.

So if you haven't heard anything of substance from Obama's own mouth, there is nothing that an Obama supporter can say to you that will make you hear what you already say you haven't heard (does that make sense?).

When it came to the Bush re-election, I felt like shaking people and asking them WHY? Why let this man continue to lead our country? Why let him seduce us with his so-called "religious" rhetoric? But at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions and no, they don't have to share them with anyone.

So let the Obama supporters feel how they feel about him. Maybe he inspires them and gives them hope which may be why people are inviting you to attend his events so you can experience him as opposed to simply watching and listening from a distance. For some people, this is all they need and is just what they need to feel that they too can start to make a difference. While it might sound sappy, Obama's right when he says that it starts with us and it always has but somewhere along the way many of us got comfortable and forgot about the shoulders we're standing on. Many of Obama's supporters believe that he hasn't forgotten and this is what makes him so appealing to them. Also, who says that it should ONLY be about what a candidate has already done as opposed to what they are inspired to do and are capable of doing?

And I'm not speaking as an Obama supporter because I don't know who I'm voting for yet. I have been very objective thus far and I can honestly see what each candidate (including McCain) brings to the table and they all have something to offer in my opinion. It's just a matter of what's most important to each person.

I dont know if you were speaking at me (as opposed to speaking to me) or just speaking generally in regards to the bolded, but assuming the former, I can assure you that I would be interested in what you would have to say. Whether I thought it met my standards of significance, I certainly wouldn't publicly declare because in part out of respect for your opinion, but more importantly because in the grand scheme of things, it isn't important.

Essentially I am trying to give Obama and his supporters the benefit of a doubt on his seriousness with the issues that have been plaguing our nation for quite some time and not try to write his stances off as empty rhetoric simply to appease the masses.

For the record, locally speaking I have heard NO campaign news from the GOP side, only the Democratic side, hence my reason for the above question. With Ohio's primary being next week (March 4), I'm just trying not to be as jaded in my thinking like I usually am (Surprise, surprise!!) :eek: :p

Nevertheless, you posts and points made herein was well said.

Thanks for responding.

If she or anyone did, PLEASE take it to PM and discuss it there.

Everyone,

Please post on the topic and MOVE ON! Posts will be edited if necessary.

ETA: Keep your posts in Black in the AKA forum. If I need to see your organization's colors, I'll stop by your respective forum or see it in your signature. Thanks!

KAP,

Did you get a chance to view any of the debates? They may be on YouTube or another site. It might be a good opportunity to hear from Obama from his own mouth. Other than that, I imagine if you research his website, his positions may also be discussed.
Re whether he talks in soundbites or just makes high-level statements. I have found his statements to be just as detailed as Hillary's or any other politicians with the limited time that they have to answer questions such as at debates.

Why don't you just go to the Obama function and see for yourself?
If you have the time and it's not a huge inconvenience for you, there probably wouldn't be any harm to doing so. At worst, I don't think that you will find it a waste of your time. At best, you might even decide to become an Obama supporter.

SC

RM: I suggest you read "Audacity of Hope" if you really want to gain a better perspective on who Obama is and why he has such a strong following. Good luck in your research.

Both candidates have detailed policy statements on their websites...

For some, this is just enough, that his campaign inspires them reinvest in the democratic process after years of being disillusioned by the system.

Update
 

After some research, reflection, and thinking, I think that even though Obama seems like a model presidential candidate, I decided to go with my gut feeling and vote for who I most believed in and who I thought truly cared most about the fate about our nation.

I voted for Ron Paul.


(I didn't see anywhere in the thread where discussion was limited to presidential candidates, hence the following):

I also decided to vote for David Ryon for my local Congressman, as his values were very similar to that of Ron Paul, and best of all his stance on the issues would most directly impact me, and that my letters and concerns to him would be least likely to be ignored. Frankly I am not impressed with Pat Tiberi and I hope Ryon stomps him in the general election.

ETA: David Ryon is also a graduate of Central State University :cool:

You're a Republican? And a graduate of Central State? Ryon might be a little more palatable than Tiberi. I think Tiberi has been around too long.

It was nice to see lots of people out at the polls in my neighborhood (early) this morning. :)

There's speculation that Ohio results won't be (definitively) known until the end of this week/beginning of next week.

Huckabee drops out...and the GOP is down to 2
 

I never would've imagined that Ron Paul would've lasted this long, surpassing all the other so-called "frontrunners": The Ghoul, Great Mitten, the Hucklebuck, Randy Watson, Tommy Thom, Tommy Tan, Duncan Hunter, wow. What a campaign race this has been.

Oh, and for the record....MCCAIN HAS NOT SECURED THE NOMINATION!!!!

Until the delegates have their final say in St. Paul in September, Ron Paul still has just as much of a chance of getting the nomination as McCain does (or anyone else for that matter). That said, the truth of the matter is that with the Hucklebuck dropping out, the odds of a brokered convention has diminished greatly. Nonetheless, it ain't over until September.

Great work, Ron Paul!!! Hang in there.

Oh, and congrats on your winning the primary to further secure your Congressional re-election seat. I read a news story that there was gonna be a re-vote in your congressional district.....


.....because someone Peden the ballot box. *rimshot* :D

Ron Paul still being in the race has nothing to do with support. He is just a vain, stubborn person that knows he has nothing to lose by not calling it quits. It also shows his lack of concern about the republican party's need for unity.

Actually, it has EVERYTHING to do with support. Ron himself said that he would only concede either by defeat at Convention or if his support and funding dried up. Neither has occured. Ron knows his grassroots is, and has been the key to a successful nomination.

Exactly. And best of all, any anti-McCain votes will (most likely) go to Ron Paul. Bottom line, until McCain gets that 50% +1 majority vote in September, IT AIN'T OVER!!

Number one, after the way the GOP has been treating him, that should be the least of his concerns at this point. Number two, the GOP is corrupt to the core and needs a serious housecleaning. Once the corrupt folk are gone, then they can talk about unity.

P.S. Contrary to popular belief, the GOP doesn't like McCain at all. OTOH, put Ron Paul in a debate with Hillary or Obama, and he will run circles around both of them (just like what he did with Ben Bernanke last week--for the second time). :D

That would be interesting. All of the news organizations have already given Hillary the win....

I think the interesting remaining question is the TX Caucus. I heard that it was a zoo. I wonder how they did it the last 4 or 5 presidential elections where this process was used...:confused:

Hillary is still in it but the only remaining states that she has a prayer to win are PA and IN. Yes, they have a lot of delegates but look at her net gain after winning TX AND OH, virtually nill!

OK, I have not decided on a presidential candidate, but I have to say, every time I see Hillary, she seems to have a different face (she seems to change her tune as the wind blows). Do others have different perceptions?

Not interested in a circular argument.

BTW per RRO a majority vote is not 50 percent plus 1. It is simply more than half.

There is no circular argument; I think we are in agreement that until September, the GOP nomination simply has not been decided, irrespective of what the MSM would otherwise like for you to believe. Period, the end.

Uhhh, 50 percent + 1 = more than half. :confused: Again, we're in agreement. But I don't want to get into a circular argument either. :D

No we are not in agreement. Period, the end.

If 355 votes are cast, 50 percent would be 177.5. The majority would be 178. Using your formula the base would be 177.5 plus 1 equaling 178.5. Rounding up (since you can't have half a person,) the winner would need 179. Elections have been lost because of this misinterpretation.

[QUOTE=mccoyred;1612630]

I think the interesting remaining question is the TX Caucus. I heard that it was a zoo. I wonder how they did it the last 4 or 5 presidential elections where this process was used...:confused:

/QUOTE]

Well, here in Texas, this type of response to a primary election was unprecedented. I caucused last night and waited in line for two hours. The line at that elementary school snaked from the halls to the parking lot outside. Truly amazing! This was minor compared to a few places in Houston and surrounding cities. In fact, at one high school in Houston, the caucus did not end until 3am. It was a crazy experience but it was also an awesome experience. I have lived in that neighborhood where I caucused for over 20 years. I have never seen a turnout like that before. Ever. Of course, people got testy and the precinct judges were a little under prepared for the volume of people that showed up. Nonetheless, voices were heard and it is definitely something I will tell my children (when I have them) and grandchildren about. Results are still pending as to whom will receive the 1/3 of delegates on the line for the Texas caucus.

My sister called and told me something very similar to your experience. She said she had been in line for 2 hours and there seemed to be hundreds in front of her. She said that (at this time it was 8:56), they (election PTB) were beginning to "shut down".

Earlier last night, I spoke with a Sororfriend in the area, and her friend interrupted our call to say that there were hundreds in line waiting to caucus where she was.

You all like to do things BIG in Texas. :rolleyes: :D

I heard on TJMS that in Ohio, precints ran out of ballots. There were also cases when voting on paper, there are stipulations that voters must follow. For instance, when voting on paper the ink can't bleed through the paper. :confused: huh?

I know Louisiana is on the bottom of the list for many national lists, but I am so glad we have had voting machines, and these new computerized machines. You just click on the area and CAST VOTE! :D

I really don't understand why every state has not come into the 21st century with technology. :confused:

Ohio used to have voting machines but last Spring they voted to do away with it from what I remember hearing on the news while in Ohio last May.

TonyB, can elaborate more for me.

Are you referring to the touch screen voting machines?

Yup, I forget you're in Ohio too.

Because with technology data can be more easily manipulated than with paper ballots and be less likely to leave an audit trail. I actually saw video of a congressional testimony for an electronic ballot contracting company where the contractor was being asked questions on whether the data could be manipulated and he was saying yes it could.

I wouldn't be so quick to give credence to electronic ballots if I were you.

I'll leave you all with this quote:

"Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." - Joseph Stalin.

I try to forget, too. :D:o:D

The last two primaries I've participated in had touch screen voting machines.
One was a little more antiquated than the other.

The new secretary of state wants Ohio to go back to paper ballots. I'm not sure how many counties have done so (if at all).