Interesting. Especially when he doesn't have the ability to swallow (easily) and Terri Schiavo can.

I haven't seen anyone say that. I thought that was the issue with the feeding tube. Why would she need one if she's been able to chew and swallow all this time? Is there an article on that?


Anyway, the thing that pisses me off about this case is that on Terri's parents side, you have doctors saying "She's suffering! Her tongue and mouth are cracked and bleeding!" And then other doctors saying that it isn't true and that she's "peaceful"

So which one is it? I'm tired of the lies, cause someone is lying here. :mad:

I watched MSNBC today(Coast to Coast with Ron Reagan) and I think I finally got the answer. They had 4 of the TOP doctors in Neurology on the show and they broke down Terri's case better than any show I've seen. They explained why Terri's brain stem is still functional, and that if she were to "get better" that it would have happened a year or so after the accident, not 15 years. It really was informative and it convinced me that Terri has NO WAY of coming out of this EVER. I was glad to hear from doctors who weren't invested in the case.

they filed yet ANOTHER appeal. The court shouldn't have even let them file. At least they haven't said yet whether they'd take the case.

Of course, he also hasn't been in a coma for 15 years and his brain functions, aside from his Parkinsons or whatever he has that has hindered him the past decade or however long.

Two totally different situations.

Plus since when can she swallow? If she could, she'd at least have had a liquid diet of some sorts or baby food.

Isn't Terri pretty much past the point-of-no-return now? Even if they reinserted the feeding tube, wouldn't she still probably die in a few days? I thought I had heard that from somewhere.

Yes, I believe so. Reinserting the feeding tube may prolong her death a little, but isn't that even more torturous? After 12 days without food or water i'm sure all of her organs are in failure. Though with as disillusioned as this family is they'd probably insist that she be bumped to the top of the transplant list or something....

Yeah, but the Shindlers haven't let medical reality stop them so far -- why start now? :rolleyes:

Federal judge just denied the request for rehearing

I found that statement quite hilarious for some reason...........

Trust me, I'd like to see an article on that as well. Because honeychile isn't the first person to say that she has the capability to eat and swallow... this same topic is an emotional one at another board I frequent. And someone mentioned that Terri could be fed Jello at some point.

But then that brings up the question... if she can eat SOMETHING without the feeding tube, why 15 years on it?

Yahoo has an article out now about the latest appeal being turned down. The father is saying that her organs are functioning... whatever that means. And how he found out is not mentioned either.

Link

He's medically psychic, didn't you know?

The reason is because whether or not she can swallow is a matter of material dispute in this case, and no news outlet wants to take one side or the other and wind up wrong.

According to the parents, she can swallow and the tube is there for 'convenience' for the medical community. This has caught on with radical right-wing dickfaces who hold up signs, attempt break-ins, disrupt schools and waste a shit ton of judicial time on garbage appeals.

According to people who have degrees in medicine, she cannot swallow reliably because she does not have full voluntary (or involuntary) muscle control. She lacks the pertinent capability to RESPOND TO FOOD IN HER MOUTH.

The swallowing argument makes me want to swallow in reverse, but it's completely understandable why a news outlet would not want to take a stand on the issue for sure (or err on the side of caution, at any rate). This is such a joke at this point, it's amazing.

K Sig RC beat me to this. But here's a quote from an article published in September of 2003 that summarizes a past appeal:

"In the Schindlers' latest petition, they asked Greer to let their daughter undergo speech therapy, saying Mrs. Schiavo already tries to speak. As a side effect of the therapy, Mrs. Schiavo might be taught to eat and take liquids without a feeding tube, which means its removal won't be a death sentence, the Schindlers argue.

"It is Mr. and Mrs. Schindler's firm belief that Terri could have been weaned off her feeding tube years ago," Anderson said, "and would be speaking today if Michael Schiavo had only cared enough about her to see to it that she received the proper therapy."

Greer, however, has consistently ruled against the Schindlers, saying evidence shows that Mrs. Schiavo cannot recover. On Wednesday, he once again rejected the petition for speech therapy."


Link to article that mentions this.

Sure she can probably swallow her own secretions occasionally, but I'm sure the purpose of her tube is because she can't swallow SAFELY. She probably would aspirate everything she put in her mouth which puts her at risk for a deadly pneumonia. After 15 years of not eating, no speech therapist can fix that. She may at times attempt to vocalize but there again, after 15 years no real progress can be expected. And of course if she truely is in a PVS she lacks both the cognitive and linguistic abilities to do either one. Speech therapy (as great as we are!) isn't going to be able to do anything for this woman and her parents need to accept reality.

Of course he is. :rolleyes:
I'm waiting for him to predict when a cure for diabetes will occur.

I have searched high and low for a fairly objective site with information about this whole case and found this one:

Florida Law Blogger

I think his time lines are great and I had NO idea that Michael Schiavo had gotten so many different types of treatment.

February 1990… Terri suffers cardiac arrest and a severe loss of oxygen to her brain

May 1990… Terri leaves hospital and is brought to a rehabiliation center for aggressive therapy

July 1990… Terri is brought to the home where her husband and parents live; after a few weeks, she is brought back to the rehabilitation center

November 1990… Terri is taken to California for experimental therapies

January 1991… Terri is returned to Florida and placed at a rehabilitation center in Brandon

July 1991… Terri is transfered to a skilled nursing facility where she receives aggressive physical therapy and speech therapy

May 1992… Michael and the Schindlers stop living together

January 1993… Michael recovers $1 million settlement for medical malpractice claim involving Terri's care; jury had ruled in Michael's favor on allegations Terri's doctors failed to diagnose her bulimia, which led to her heart failure; case settled while on appeal

March 1994… Terri is transferred to a Largo nursing home

May 1998… Michael files petition for court to determine whether Terri's feeding tube should be removed; Michael takes position that Terri would choose to remove the tube; Terri's parents take position that Terri would choose not to remove the tube

February 2000… Following trial, Judge Greer rules that clear and convincing evidence shows Terri would choose not to receive life-prolonging medical care under her current circumstances (i.e., that she would choose to have the tube removed) [READ]

March 2000… Judge Greer denies petition for more swallowing tests, finds it uncontested Terri cannot swallow sufficiently to live [READ]

April 2000… Terri is transferred to a Hospice facility

He has many of the legal documents posted, both the motions filed and the responses of the judges. It's interesting reading and is primarily from a legal view point rather than a moral/ethical one.

Dee

I love that South Park tonight did an episode on the Schiavo case, lol. It's ridiculous that it does deserve that kind of insensitive humor.

News flash, the Supreme Court rejected yet again an appeal from Terri's parents. Webster also has plans to update it's definition of the term "hopeless."

[hijack]

In some hospitals, if not most, when someone is brought into the ER under trauma conditions, they are automatically intubated, and given a feeding tube. My father was technically DOA, but was still given the tubes. It was only when we noticed that blood was backing up in his breathing tube and the precursor to lividity was starting that we realized that there was no hope - even though there was still the tiniest bit of brain activity (we'll never know how much, since we didn't push for an MRI or PET scan).

I've had several clients who have had their tubes removed, have done well for a while, then needed one or the other back again. People can live with ng tubes for many years, and still eat, besides.
[/hijack]

I'm fully aware that my stance is not a popular one, but as has been stated before, a dog would not be permitted to die in this fashion under medical care. Take her tubes out, let her have water or whatever, and if she aspirates, so be it - but it would be a more natural death than this cruel and unusual one. This is worse than anything that has ever been done to a any death row inmate in this country!

*nods* Well good for those people! Seriously if that were the case with Terri, I'm sure that after 15 years the doctors have tried to get the woman to swallow, feed herself, etc. I highly doubt that they've just let her lay there and not tried to get the woman to speak or eat. I still stand by that I haven't seen an article or person produce a video of poor Terri eating or doing things that would prove that she has a steam of continued consciousness. Do you really think 40 doctors are wrong on this? I'm sincerely curious.

RUgreek yeah I saw the episode tonight! I laughed when it said in Kenny's will "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T PUT ME ON NATIONAL T.V. IN THAT STATE." All the Southpark characters were like "Oops!" lol.

I'm sure Terri feels the same, she was a pretty young woman.

If she has no cortical brain function and only brain stem then she won't be able to swallow functionally. The brain stem is important for swallow function but without the cortex it's not really possible that she can eat.

People in rehab have tubes removed all the time, mostly because they regain their ability to safely eat but mouth. Many will keep the tube to help them supplement nutrition if they can't eat or drink enough to sustain themselves. In Terri's case, she kept the tube because she never regained the ability and that tube has really kept her alive for the last 15 years.

Does that one sign in the back say "Judge Greer = Poo-head"?

Schindlers Denied Visitation Overnight

I think it's just crappy that he won't let her own family members see her. At this point we're counting down the remaining minutes of her life - can't these people (both sides) grow up and all spend the time w/ her together? This is just beyond childish.

Edited to add another article:

Judge Greer asked to "reconsider his membership" at his church.

"What happens when faith in God collides with commitment to the job?

In the case of Judge George Greer, a Christian who ordered the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, the answer is difficult.

Two weeks ago, Greer's pastor asked him to reconsider his membership at Calvary Baptist Church, one of Clearwater's largest and best known Southern Baptist congregations.

Greer severed ties with the theologically conservative congregation within days of the request.

Calvary says it did not technically ask Greer to leave. But to some, its actions may have left the impression that the judge was forced out of the very place where disagreements are supposed to be quashed.

The truth, Calvary says, is that Greer was the first one to walk away and hadn't regularly attended church in several years.

The membership question was merely an attempt to make it official."

---

I think this is just...hypocritical. The church should welcome him as a member regardless of his political beliefs, actions on the job, or his attendance record.

This is how she would have died had we not played God and inserted a feeding tube into a person who has nothing but sub-primal brain functionality. Relating the death of someone with no capacity for pain, suffering, or cognition relating to the circumstances of death to dying from the electric chair just seems like a false analogy to me.

If she did, in fact, have any sort of these capacities, I'd probably agree with you and feel that she should be administered something to allow her to die in peace.


As an aside, South Park tonight was so sick - I've never laughed so hard in my LIFE as at the request to not be put on national TV. Absolutely brilliant.

She just died. I hope she finally finds rest and peace.:(

She finally died. May she rest in peace. I hope her parents will grieve and won't file lawsuits.

Oh goodness I hope you're right. I hope they let her go with the dignity she deserves instead of fighting Michael Schiavo with lawsuits.

I guess the next battle is where to bury her. In this case, I hope Michael decides to let her parents bury her with their family instead of with his family. It would be the right thing to do.

Now she can finally rest in peace.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/31/schiavo/index.html

Yup, don't think that the battle is over, it's really just begun. I hope Michael allowed her parents to be there, I really do. :(

http://www.foxnews.com/images/158435...rehospice2.jpg

I just feel like we need to see a flattering happy picture of her right now, not that one they keep showing on t.v. :(

WTF? What's with this non-stop coverage of her death? Nobody in this country gives a rats ass about the quakes in Indonesia?!? Get a life or at least move on from her death.

Now they are going to continue this case until her autopsy is complete. That won't prove anything because the naysayers will interpret the report in their own way or say the doctors lied if it's unfavorable to their cause. Go back to your trailer park homes and find something better to do with your time...

Praise the Lord:p

GREAT article discussing what we've learned from the Schiavo case.

I'll echo what myself and many others have already said: please, please put your wishes in writing so that there is at least one good thing to come of this mess.

You know there'll be a bunch of lawsuits, but what are they going to accomplish? She's dead. But they're going to continue to fight over it forever. Wasting money and tying up the court system. And for what? They're not going to bring her back. Oh wait, with their psychic abilities when it comes to medicine, maybe they will

:rolleyes:

Geez
 

Does anyone else think that following the coroner's van with her body to the ME's office with a helicopter ala OJ's bronco chase is a bit macabre???

WAY too over the top....

Rest in Peace, Terrie, you are free from your pergatory and home at last.

This is the sad truth

-RC
--but it pays my salary

Every time I hear or read anything about this it just makes me sick. I think it's horrible that she was alive in her situation for 15 years, but good Lord, she was alive. I truly believe this was murder. I don't understand why her husband just didn't divorce her and let her parents do what they wanted with her. It might be stupid of them to hold onto hope that she would recover, but that's their choice. Give up your hold over her and get on with your family. Yuck.

From this week's Newsweek, in regards to the 2000 trial:

Interesting.

Scary and obsessive are more along the lines I think.

May she finally rest in peace. But I also agree that that lawsuits will go on and on after the burial... or scattering of ashes...

Sad times.

I truly think that he was doing what Terri wanted. What else could explain this man putting himself through this mess? He has news outlets slamming him and people hating him, why would he go through all this if he didn't give a damn about the woman? If he didn't care I think he would have left when it got hot, but he didn't, I gotta admire him for that.

If my husband truly told me that that's not how he wanted to live, there's nothing you, the government, or anyone else on this earth could say or do to stop me from fulfilling his wish. That's why I believe the husband when he says that that's what she wanted.

Absolutely....he did whatever he could to honor her last wish (as he believed it) no matter the cost to him, and that is what I would do for my husband and would want him to do for me.

That's a very one-sided opinion since you can't understand his side after he clearly stated this is what she would have wanted. You are picturing it as the husband vs. the parents, but her name was Terri Schiavo, not Terri Schindler when she passed away.

Maybe it's so difficult to understand because deep down you don't want to admit he was really doing the right thing. If you want to use strong words like murder, maybe you should get all the facts first. Death does not always equal murder.

Within a couple months, nobody here will care about this story or her family, this is the flavor of the month for your entertainment pleasure. Soak it up and pretend you care about this person you never met. In reality, this was just a pathetic attempt to invade a person's private matters.