I called the OGL and asked about COB but since today is bid day they said they wont know until tomorrow, so i'll call back and see whats what.

Good for you :) Something will work out. I would also email all your friends or something asap coz sometimes the OGL may not have all the top news right away.

Please explain to me what is happening to the rushee's. Does it apply to all the rushees, or just the ones who decide they are too good for certain houses?

DeltaBetaBaby! I sure hope you weren't directing that at pinklady! From the things she posted during her rush, she seemed to be trying to have an open mind. She kept saying things like, 'the girls are nice, but just not for me' and she even gave a bunch a 'second chance' because she thought it wise, so if after third round, when she's seen a lot of the girls, if she's uncomfortable accepting a bid from certain houses, that's her perogative. I think it has nothing to do with thinking she's "too good" for a certain house! Besides, by dropping before Pref, she might be opening a slot for a PNM whose heart is set on one of those houses and will become the next "super member"!


Regardless, though, that seems like an uncharasteristic comment from you...:(

I personally didn't think this was an overly nice comment, since we're discussing comments. pinklady23, I sincerely hope that you will overlook "reputations" because many many times, they are wrong. The house that is considered the "dorky" sorority at Marquette is far and away my favorite and definitely the one I would have joined if I had rushed here.

I was definitely not trying to be mean about any of the houses. Like i said i know some girls in "gray" and one of my very best high school friends pref'ed gray (im not sure where she ended up because bid day is taking place right now). i think i was being truthful in all my descriptions, i said its true they dont have a good reputation but the girls were nice. never did i say "oh my god i cant believe i have to go here its terrible" becuase those were NOT my feelings at all. (and the fact that i thought they didn't put on a great rush, thats all subjective, someone else might have thought they put on a great rush and felt immediately at home etc but that just wasn't the case for me personally.)

There is also a differene between thinking youre too good for a house and thinking that the girls just aren't clicking with you. If you can look back at your expereince and say "i didnt get my first choice, i got my second but looking back i realized it was right and that my first choice house wouldnt have been good", its basically the same thing of saying wow these girls are a fit for me, and another house just wasnt as great a fit, which is basically what i said about the houses, that they werent a great fit.

That's fine, but don't blame the system because your rush didn't work out.

There is a thread about this elsewhere...maybe someone from UM's system can tell us whether "cut once, cut again" is truly a written down Panhellenic rule or something that might only be a "tradition" that isn't strictly enforced. Because nationally, this does not apply.

Ladies!

Pinklady was kind enough to share her views of rush with us, post after each party, and ask our opinions. With everything that's been said, I'm sure she understands what happened and all - she even had a legacy house where she didn't feel comfortable. Isn't that what we always preach? Give everyone a second & third chance, but if you're not comfortable, then find the house where you are comfortable?

I admit that I'm disappointed that an ADPi legacy wasn't comfortable with the UM chapter, but it happens! In fact, it happened to me, so I'd be the last to point fingers!

Maybe y'all don't see how mean-spirited this thread is becoming. If Pinklady (as a PNM) said something that came out wrong, I can be much more forgiving than those of us who are already IN our house of choice.

She's asked for our help. Let's be ladies as we advise her.

[/soapbox]

I just want to assure you that the computer NEVER messes up. I was the computer chair for panhellenic at my school last year, and believe me, it's always 100% accurate. The matches are based on mutual selection. At my school, girls will tell a house that really wanted her that she wanted them, just to make them feel better. Girls in houses can do this to rushees as well. Last year we had several people claiming computer errors, so they came in and demanded for us to look at the bid sheets and the bid card again. And 10 times out of 10, it was clear that it was not the computer who errored. I just had to tell you that, because that's one of the biggest misconceptions about computer rush, and it can often be the scapgoat for problems. Have faith in the computer though, cause it's never the real issue. If you still doubt the computer, go into the Greek Life office and ask them to check it out. They will help clear things up for you.

It happened this year at one of the schools I advise. One chapter had quota, but after bid matching it said they didn't. The chapter realized it after seeing the list of pnm's that didn't match. Another chapter also matched one less than quota, but the computer said that they matched two less than quota, and no one could figure out why. I don't know what system/software the school was using, but mistakes can happen. All programs have bugs. I'm not saying it happened in this case though, but it is possible.

I do agree that not all computer programs, or any technology for that matter, are errorproof, but in my experience the computer does not make the mistake. The information is input by humans, esp recruitment chairs, VPs, or advisors who are very tired. The computer is right regarding the information it is given. That is why double checking the disks with printouts is very important. Everything the computer gets is from a person. Just food for thought!! Everyone have a great day!!! :)

ValpoKD

I guess my point is just that mistakes do happen. I'm probably stressing the bug thing too much because my hubby is a software developer so I hear about bugs all day. But however they occur, they do happen. It's very rare, but unfortunately they sometimes can. Of course, it may just happen at schools that don't care about Greek Life and making sure mistakes don't happen, like the one I advise! :)

If we say that chapters shouldn't string girls along by not cutting them until the last minute (which I'd agree with), isn't it fair that girls shouldn't string chapters along if they know THEY don't want them? Sometimes, yes, another chance will show you XYZ is great - but not always. Sometimes you really do know. We all know girls who took a chance and found out they loved XYZ - and we know girls who took a chance and ended up depledging.

Pinklady, I'm sorry rush didn't turn out the way you wanted. I hope you find a right place for yourself, in Greek life or out of it.

I believe that (at least in my day) that if you were cut from 1st and 2nd sets, you could not be invited back for snap bids. Only if you did not recieve a bid or were cut in 3rd Sets. And I believe it was a Panhel rule.

Designergal might be able to help out a little more! She's a more current alumna ;)

And Pinklady I do hope as I said before that you find your way into UM's greek system. It really is a wonderful opportunity. In all honesty every kind of system that they use to match the girls and houses has its bugs. My freshman year about 25% or more girls did not recieve bids. The Rush class started with about 990 girls and ended with like 400 getting Bids or something like it.
I would just like to say that there are really no "good" and "bad" houses at UM, but I do get the point that you were trying to make. As Designergal said every house has its issues and as pointed out you have the a few "popular" houses that always do well, but these houses also have pretty high de-acto rates. Just like you have "non-popular" houses that continue to struggle. However, all chapters have or will eventually go through low and high points of membership. That's just life, but you make the best of what you have. I totally understand that AGD was not for you and take no offense to it. Its not for everyone and as you said you stated your feelings. I do hope that you do find the house for you.

[size=4.9]GO BLUE!!![/size]

Pinklady, best wishes to you!

FuzzieAlum, about PNMs not stringing chapters along "if they know THEY don't want them" -- sometimes the rush rules make that difficult. Fairly often PNMs are required to attend up to the maximum number of parties they're invited to for each invitational round.
Let's say as an example there are 2 invitational rounds before pref. After the open round and the first invites, the PNM is certain that Chapter X is not where she'd be comfortable. But when invitations come for the second invitational round, she has been cut from enough chapters that she must go to Chapter X's party, along with parties at some other chapters that invited her back. SHE is not deliberately stringing Chapter X along -- she is following the rules so she can remain in recruitment.

Ok, I am sorry but that is so completely rude. This girl is sharing her story and her own personal opinion...who are we to jump on her for that?? There are houses on my campus that I would NEVER join because I would not have fit. It is not that I am too good for them, but I just would not be happy.
We are all entitled to our own opinions of houses and to think that someone could be happy in every single house house is too idealistic in my opinion. Rush is all about finding a fit for both the sorority and the rushee...not joining any house that you can for the sake of being greek.

Sweetie I hope that things work out for you, hopefully some COB events :) ya never know!!! Im wishing you the best of luck be sure and let us know if youre going to participate in COB :)

Nichole

I just want to thank you all for being so supportive. I am going to call the OGL and find out about cob at 10am, it can't hurt to find out asap right?

My housemates had a little thursday evening get together and girls from 3 sororities came after their bidnight was over, and they all said they felt really bad about my situation and that sometimes things just don't work out, and lots of houses had to cut girls they liked so dont take it personally.

As said before it applies at Michigan that you must attend the maximum number of parties possible, and if you decide not to show up at a house you will be dropped from all of rush.

For some reason I'm feeling the memories of a girl on GC from a couple of rushes ago who majorly isht-talked about a number of sororities during her rush.

She ended up getting a bid from a house that she royally isht-talked about. The sisters found about what she had said, and the PNM ended up declining the bid. It was an uncomfortable situation for the PNM, the house, and the rest of the sororities because THEY ALL FOUND OUT.

DeltaBetaBaby...I'm feeling you on this one.

The moral of Aesop's fable folx, you don't know who reads this.

Just my two cents.

That is very true. I know that from what I have read the PNM dont really talk alot of isht about the GLO's just their own personal opinions on how it is for them. It doesnt really refect on the sorority at all since everyone is different and has different opinions, I would go as far as saying that the org. has a bad rep or anything b/c truth is that there is isht talked about just about every sorority on campus it all depends on who you talk to. Just alot of stupid people who have nothing better to do with their time if you ask me!

Nichole

This is true, but it can still be very, very messy. Chapter X won't know what invites this PNM is getting, and won't know whether she keeps coming back because she wants to, or because she has to. If a chapter believes the former and they're wrong, then they could be very hurt in the end.

Case in point: my rush freshman year. There was a house on my campus that wasn't very popular, and several PNM's would act DELIBERATELY impolite at that house in an attempt to get cut by them. I thought that was totally not classy, and I was always very friendly and polite at this house, even though it was probably my last choice. Well, I never was in a position to cut them, and I went to pref. Needless to say, there were some pissed off people at that house when I ended up somewhere else -- they thought i was very interested in joining.

Personally, I think that PNM's should be required to go to all their invites -- up until Pref. If pref night comes around and a PNM really isn't interested in a house, they should be allowed to cut it regardless of how many invites they have. It would save both sides a lot of stress and disappointment.

Speaking as a Software Engineer, I find this impossible to believe. In fact, even if the software is completely bug free (which is so highly unlikely I'd bet my life's savings on it) -- you still have hardware issues to deal with. 1 bit flip and you have an error. How that error manifests itself depends on when and where the bit was flipped.

Granted, it's not likely -- hardware is pretty stable and good code is generally error free. But generally is the key term. I truly hope that everyone's Panhellenic Association double checks the bid lists and those who did not receive bids to make sure that it makes sense. While the software is going to most likely get it right -- the exhausted people entering the data are another story entirely. :)

That is absolutely fine. You are an adult, and you are entitled to make your own decisions. However, as an adult, you (and PL) have to take responsibility for those decisions. I did not take issue with PL deciding not to complete rush. I took issue with her statement (to paraphrase) that she somehow got screwed by the system.

(edited because I accidentally got my PNM's confused)

I do sort of agree with DeltaBeta here. What bothers me about this story is that there is a lot of "talk" amongst people, but no solid evidence to back up the talk. PL, you say the system screwed you, but how did that happen? The system didn't screw you, but the sororities where you wanted to go had to make the cuts accordingly. Yes, many sororities would love to take a whole lot more girls than quota allows, but being a member of the Panhellenic means that you follow the formal recruitment rules and the way that it works. Panhellenic and its rules are in place so that all sororities are on as equal footing as possible. And by having this system that may help smaller sororities catch up to the larger groups is not a screw job to PNMs.

As for the computer bid matching, every single time that I've used it and there was a problem, it was human error. Women in sororities and PNMs have to fill out their scantrons carefully and make sure that everything is perfect. Human error is nearly ALWAYS the problem.

Pinklady, it sounds to me, and I could be wrong, that you had in your mind the groups you wanted going in, which while I don't agree with that school of thought, is fine to do. But if that plan didn't work out, blaming the system that sororities have been using for many many years to have fair and equal recruitment for all sororities isn't really fair. I hope that either through COB or snap bids or whatever method necessary, you find yourself a home at Michigan. It sucks to have so many sororities on a campus and not be able to find your place, but I think that it's out there for the taking if you look at it :)

I've always wondered why the BGLOs place such an emphasis on discretion during their intake process, but after reading this thread I'm starting to see how that concept isn't a bad idea.

*edited because I can't spell tonight*

Computer Errors
 

Okay, there obviously are errors in the bid-matching process from time to time. I know that there was an error during my rush process, because I got a list of invites, and then two days later had to go see my RX's again to get a new list of invites for the same round of parties. THAT is a computer error.

What is probably NOT a computer error is when Patty PNM puts ABC first and does not get them, even though she was SURE that they wanted her.

I agree with this. It's one thing to require a PNM to attend parties up UNTIL prefs. It's evil to make a woman attend prefs that she's not interested in. In my thread on forced prefs, I spoke about several cases I knew of in which Panhellenic had made rushees go to prefs they didn't want to.

In every case, the PNM was made to go to the pref of the so-called "weakest" sorority on campus. In every case, that sorority was devastated on Bid Day because they'd had a great number of women at prefs and then very few NMs. Of course, the sorority had no clue that their women at prefs were there by coercion.

I can not imagine the horrible feeling of having dozens of girls at prefs and then maybe 2 girls running up to you on Bid Day.

Carnation, we had that happen to our chapter the year we were a colony. I was a Rho Chi and knew everything the PNMs were saying about us and it was devastating to see my sisters faces, particularly when they had hosted numerous women at Preference. We actually went on to have two New Member classes of 25 women before we chartered, but it was a real blow to the ego!

This recruitment season, more than any other before, has drilled the importance of discretion into my little brain! :)

Back on track....

Any news pinklady23???

You know how at some schools you can "regret with interest"? Too bad you can't "accept with regret."

I also think when the rushees are told that "if you follow all the rules and go to all the rounds you will get a bid"- it needs to be made clearer that it may be a bid to someplace where they might not want to be. That's a promise that is true in practice, but somewhat false in spirit - it's really not the same thing as getting the classes you want but not at the time you want them.

I just want to say that the our "not so strong house;" the Michigan Beta chapter of Pi Beta Phi pledged 39 NMs, bringing chapter total to 128 members!!!! Way to go girls and congratulations on a successful recruitement to AXO, ADPi, AEPhi, AGD, Alpha Phi, XO, Tri Delta, DG, DPhi, Gamma Phi, Theta, Kappa, SDT and Sigma Kappa!!! It is always wonderful to hear that 600NMs found homes!

congrats to UM on a successful rush!!!
also, to Pinklady, remember that this is YOUR choice regardless of the advice and opinions you receive on here. only you know your situation and feelings, and i totally support any decision you make. remember, there is always spring rush (if yoy have it) and next year! be true to yourself =)

As my final post here:
My feelings as having been screwed by the system were just that, my feelings. And as so, they aren't really up for you to decide if they are wrong. this is NOT a system that has been used for years and years, this is the first year testing a completely new system. My feelings were based on talking to girls i know in houses, the 3 rho omegas that i talked to when decided to drop, and other girls who rushed, successfully and not.

And for everyone else, yes i am aware it is a mutual selection so the girls in some/a lot/all the houses just plain old didnt like me.

Pinklady23, you are right... your feelings should not be debated. I am sorry that you feel you were screwed by the system. I know three things from reading your posts and knowing someone local that as an active in a "stronger" house at UofM... .

1) Being a sophomore does limit you more than being a freshman. This is true at most schools. If someone goes into recruitment as an upperclassman, for a second time, with a low GPA or with few recs.. bascially a bit handicapped; then they IMO, need to want to be Greek, not just a member of a certain chapter... Otherwise the PNM will be disappointed. (I know this is not for every school... so please, there is no need to tell me this is not the case at the University of XYZ.. It is the case at many schools.)

2) This new system is being used at many schools and many PNMs find homes. It has had problems... chapters that always make quota, have missed it... chapters that never make quota are making it... The idea is to equal the system out! (I have mixed feelings on how well it works). Even with the old system, PNMs dropped when they were left with houses they did not like or they were set on being an XYZ and XYZ cut them... Either way chapters are pleding NMs every year and as I have posted elsewhere... the statistics have not changed that much, there is still an average of 75-80% PNMs that start rush, joining a chapter at the end.

3) I have to wonder if you really know how the system works with your comment "And for everyone else, yes i am aware it is a mutual selection so the girls in some/a lot/all the houses just plain old didnt like me. " I can only hope that you do not think this is why your top chapters did not invite you to pref.

Best Wishes!

PL- What happened really sucks :( I really hope that everything works out for you in the end!

My thoughts:
The system is a bad one. Rush is a brutal, almost sickening process . I think they should do away with it and allow girls to go where they want. Simple as that. One might argue, "what about the weak houses?". I would say let the chips fall where they may. It's like capitalism of the sorority world! I like this type of free market system! Ok, now y'all can yell at me :) I know some people will definately NOT agree with this...

beachgal ~
While in theory I think women should be able to choose the house they want to belong to, there's a part of me (coming from being a member of a smaller house) that feels that if it were to go this way, women may never give the smaller houses a chance to see if they really belong there. In my personal experience, that's probably what I would've done if I hadn't gone through formal recruitment and joined the house that I did. I was completely set on joining one house going into recruitment....surprise, surprise, they cut me before preference night. If that hadn't have happened, I never would've discovered how happy I am to be a member of the "first and finest" sorority around!

No system is perfect....there's no way ANY system could be perfect...women are still going to either slip through the cracks or get their hearts broken. But in the end, I believe that this is the easiest way for women to become exposed to every chapter on their campus....even if they could never see themselves becoming a member of certain chapters. :cool:

*APPLAUSE* well said!

I see what you are saying. But when such a process becomes more detrimental (to many rushees) than it is beneficial, then it is time to reevaluate the system. I go to a school with a cut-throat rush, so I see it (and have experienced it)firsthand as well as through GC (certain threads concerning suicide, depression, transferring schools because of RUSH come to mind). I think it is great for girls to visit every house initially, for exactly the reasons you stated. But the whole idea of houses cutting rushees becomes pretty absurd when you start to really think about it...