I vote high school hero who was balled.

Hahaha, I'd agree with that.

Pussy? Another tough guy who talks shit behind a computer screen. I bet you're real tough, sitting in mom and dads basement, calling people 'pussy' on a message board. Now THAT is classy.

What do you want to know? Tell me something about your chapter, and I'll tell you that I'm better than you.

All you do all day is talk shit and ruin threads that we try to start. Don't be a f**king hypocrite. Sorry, I'm happy being thoroughly convinced that you are a loser GDI. You made all of these brash claims and now you don't want to back it up. Unlike most of us, you can't even spit out what school you pledged at.

Now quick, fire back with something about being "douchey" or redneck or some other lame redundant insult that you like to use.

Hahahaha, I am in mommy and daddy's basement right now actually. I have made no claims about my chapter, because I don't feel like revealing who I am or what fraternity I am in. I prefer a little anonymity. But I don't see how me calling you a pussy (which you are) relates to me being classy, or the reasoning process that was used to determine its rellevence.

BOYS.. can we put the Penises away please?

That's it.. tuck them back in. I know they're all equally small...

Seriously.

I least you capitalized penis.

you're damn right my dick is a proper noun.

Lame. I learned about the Kansas battles in 6th grade and totally disregarded it as actual Civil War battles.

I really am interested in SigmaChiGuys chapter, it would be alot of fun to find out where it is, and why he likes dogging on Southern chapters. Or if he is even Greek. That wouldn't suprise me too much.

:rolleyes:

I don't get it...if your brothers in chapters other than the south are unworthy of your badge/ritual, why not just join up with the rest of your southern chapters and start a different fraternity? It sounds like you want self-rule/self-governance, and well, being local lets you have that.

< / devils advocate >

Actually, there is talk about that amung a few southern fraternities.

Way ahead of you champ.

There have been talks of a Sigma Chi split and if I'm not mistaken KA and SAE as well. It'll be awhile though, insurance absolutely kills. Who knows. As the divide is assuredly growing stronger we may see this in the next 20-30 years.

ETA: We get screwed over by the GDI's up at National Headquarters. National programs like True Gentleman and Balanced Man have pretty much bent over good chapters and took it to them.

Actually, he's simply doing the same thing that a number of folks who assert that Southern Fraternities are "the best" without offering any proof except to say that everyone knows it's true.

So turnabout isn't fair play?

Aside from insurance, wouldn't housing also be an issue? If the Southern chapters split from HQs, wouldn't the fraternities take back their houses?

Haha, everyone thinks the same way. We've had numerous talks about this, even with other fraternities on campus who say they'd actually join if it were feasible. The issues, like mentioned, are insurance, and another issue for us is property. I'm not sure about the house, because it is owned by our local alumni group. I don't think nationals could take it, seeing as we bought it. However, we do have like a 10 cent 100 year lease from the university on our land. I'm sure with some efforts we could get some land for a local, but seeing as most universities hate fraternities, they probably would use some excuse to take back the land.

Houses aren't of question, most good fraternities own their own.

You'd have to look at the lease I guess. And it would depend, if the alumni association owns it, that association would have to break off as well. If they bought it through your fraternity... I dunno.

Quite frankly, it sounds like your secession would be beneficial to you and your fraternity. I don't know, as I'm not involved, just basing this on GC. However, it is slightly hypocritical to stay in a fraternity you don't share values with, just because of insurance, etc. Suck it up, charge the dues and if your alumni will still support you, use them to your benefit...

Often though it's on rented land like shinerbock's or it's actually owned by the alumni. Not sure you'd get the alumni to break away...

Or if it's owned by the National fraternity, good luck taking it with you.

We could get out alumni to break away no problem. Raising our dues to pay for insurance could be possible, although ironic, considering our dues are probably the highest of all chapters in the nation.

I wish all of you southern "fratters" would break off and form your own fraternity, then I wouldn't have to associate with you narrow-minded, bigot asses. Maybe you could form Kappa Kappa Kappa.

Sorry, Tri-Kappa is already taken by a group in Indiana. Nice try at a lame joke anyway.

Yeah but I'm assuming your national fees are either identical for all chapters or based on the size of your chapter. Therefore that's all your money no matter what...

FYI - There have never been talks about Sigma Chi chapters separating and forming a new fraternity. Real Sigma Chis believe too much in the Creed, Jordan Standard, and our ritual to give it up. We also care about our fraternity and its history too much to ever seriously consider such a thing. TSteven, Proud2Be, SigmaChiGuy - back me up on this.

There must be two tri-kaps, because there's one at Dartmouth too. And it's a local.

Yes there has. I've talked to many Sigma Chi's from several campuses. They are absolutely sickened at what the HQ is doing to them. No one said that they would give up ritual. No one said they were giving up Creed or Standard, it would just have different National Headquarters and so on.

Agreed with shinerbock, they would do it in a second. During an alumni dinner they were disgusted by what the Headquarters were doing to the fraternity.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I highly doubt any self respecting Southerner - especially members of "old row" chapters and or a chapter where one's Daddy and Great Grand Daddy are members and family and tradition matter - would entertain splitting from their fraternity just to join up with other "like minded" souls to form some "new" fraternity. Frankly, it would be disrespectful and insulting to their heritage. And besides, the old boy (girl) network is alive and well and anyone of means will still belong to the more established and respected chapters. Not some nouveau/fly by night (I can't get my way so I'm leaving) fraternity.

Now if some yahoo feels that they aren't man enough to make things happen either locally or on an inter/national level, then they shouldn't let that solid oak door slam them on their turncoat butt when they leave.

Well, we've got a fairly good setup at the moment. Nationals doesn't ever send anyone to look after us, and they never attempt to punish our transgressions...We pretty much ignore things like their pledge program and what not, so thats not too big a deal. This issue comes to the forefront most every year at convention/leadership conference, when we are REQUIRED to send so many people. Now that in itself isn't bad, except that we have to generally pay several hundred dollars for every person we send. However, when we get there, we often have to teach the classes. The last conference I went to was a east coast regional conference, in which I taught ALL the pledge training classes, our treasurer taught the large majority of the financial sessions, and our rush chairmen (we have 2) led the "recruitment" sessions. I just find it pretty unnerving that our nationals will go against what we do all year, by promoting diversity, anti-"hazing" and making our fraternity more acceptable to people from all walks of life. However, come convention time, the chapters nationals hate all year are suddenly put up on a pedestal, simply because we actually have large memberships, large operating budgets, etc...

Plus, if you broke off, you'd no longer be entitled to the letters, ritual etc. of your former fraternity.

But the point that was being made is that THIS IS NOT THE SAME FRATERNITY! The National Headquarters have ruined everything beautiful about all of our fraternities. Most alumni realize this and are just as angry as the students.

ETA: I don't think you have to explain "old row" to me.

Would your most prominent alumni that you've mentioned in the past (senators, millionaires, public figures, etc.) be willing to leave the fraternity to form a local? If not, then starting a local would not be advantageous because it might lack the connections and networking that your fraternity currently provides. Also, while your alumni might be angry at your nationals in theory, they may not be happy if you were to break off from them and form your own chapter instead of figuring out a way to solve the problem.

I think ours would actually, because the majority of the corporate execs, politicians, public figures, came from southern chapters, and really only identify with their chapter. Of all the ones I've head contact with, they talk about being at whatever school they went to, and not at all about the national org.

If you or your alumni don't like how your fraternity is being run, then do something to change it instead of whining about it.

Just looking at Sigma Chi's leadership on their webpage- out of the five grand officers listed, at least one is southern- he went to Baylor.

Any able-minded decent business man would know that the changes being made to the greek system the past decade or so have been essential to keeping the fraternities in existence.

FIJI at Texas has done this. I am not totally sure of the whole story, but something happened with nationals years back and the UT chapter split away and is now known solely as FIJI. They don't use Phi Gam whatsoever and you won't see their letters anywhere. Their dues and insurance did go up significantly which sucks, but they are now considered probobly one of the top FIJI chapters in the country. Their dues are pretty damn high though, almost double what everyone else here on campus is, even the top tier fraternities.

Well duh! Fraternities evolve.

Now from your point of view, it appears that this may not be in the best interest *for you* and for certain other members. Again, if this is the case, then by all means quit and form your own club. No one is forcing you - collective you - to remain. Besides, there are many other organizations - fraternal and otherwise - that are available for networking, friendship and what have you. So knock yourself out and go have fun.

That is good to know. I sometimes wonder.

I understand the reasonability of changing our national fraternity, but we're vastly outnumbered. Its hard to fight an organization which strives for political correctness in every area. Not to mention, I doubt a CEO or congressman is willing to put himself out there for the issues we have problems with.

How could they be a top Phi Gamma Delta chapter? If they split from Phi Gamma Delta and are known soley as FIJI, then they are a "one and only" chapter as it were.

Money talks. If you guys contribute so much money, you have more power. If your alumni aren't involved and making their voices heard, running for office or volunteering, it's no one's fault but theirs.

What you're complaining about within the fraternity is applicable to society in general (i.e. the political correctness).

It is applicable yes. Unfortunately our alumni give most of their money to a fund set up that nationals does not recieve. We don't generally contribute to the national fraternity, unless it is solely philanthropy.

Comment and question (probably retorical)

The insurance and dues thing is one that is very hard to get undergrad membership to focus on. The rates for a large local would have to be astronomical -- with that reflected in the dues which seems to be true in the case you mention.

I would think that Phi Gamma Delta would have a copyright (or would it be a service mark?) on the "word" FIJI. I wonder how the breakaway chapter gets away with using it.