I would also argue that U of Arizona needs to open for expansion as the chapters quota for the last couple of years has been over 100 new members.

The problem though with UA is that a chapter MUST have a house, which obviously could be problematic for a chapter to come onto campus. Either way though, 100+ new member classes are insane.

As far as chapter facilities and housing goes…I'm not entirely sure how the University would go about providing the equivalent to a new group. Each of the four groups on campus now have a floor of a set of residence halls, with 24 beds on each floor for what's usually the exec boards of the groups and any other girls that want to live there. The floors occupied by the sororities also each have a chapter room and storage space for ritual equipment and the like.

The housing spaces themselves would be less of an issue for the University, being that each of the two buildings have a first floor that is not assigned to any particular group and have the same number of bed spaces. The issue I would see is that neither first floor of the building has the equivalent chapter space for a new group. I do believe the University plans to add more residence halls near the current sorority housing, and possibly in a similar style, but that's unlikely to happen in the next few years (they have already started construction on a new residence hall near the main sets due to a requirement for Fall 2015 that all incoming freshmen who don't live within a certain mile radius have to live on campus). I do not believe the groups are large enough that the chapter space itself is in danger of not being able to hold them—even though quotas have gone up a little, chapter total has not fluctuated much at all (that I can tell).

Presentations are happening now. Via twitter we just presented a few days ago. Obviously I'm rooting for Alpha Xi :D

Missouri University of Science & Tech ('14 Q=41, '13 Q=23, '12 Q=27, '11 Q=27)

I honestly don't see us opening up for expansion in the next three years. Despite growing numbers and smaller spaces (Zeta had to do big sis reveal in the student union), there aren't enough girls to support a whole other chapter. Total is around 101 and only ChiO doesn't have to COB most likely. This school has just a small proportion of girls, so I see it unlikely to get a fourth NPC group soon. Our only NPHC sorority, Delta Sigma Theta, is dormant now that the only member graduated.

Zeta does want a new house which if they get, I assume it will be built on their current property and that will solve their space issue. But otherwise campus is in a weird position with housing.

The university closed down a hall complex and plans to demo and rebuild, and also to build on another plot of land. But this school is bad at getting buildings started being built, so it will be a couple of years at least until we see progress. Res Life was actually encouraging students to go greek so they'd have a real place to stay and alleviate space issues (in the closed complex one of the halls is up and running and another was reopened at the beginning of the year due to lack of room for students. Students were also placed in a hotel and in rooms in the traditional dorm that were originally study rooms)

Since there is no space on campus, there has been a building boom in town and sophomores on up living off campus. There's not much, if anything, to build on anywhere near campus that would be good for a sorority (all three are within two blocks of campus).

I so want to see Phi Mu back at UA but I know that housing would be a huge concern as I would hazard to guess we sold the house. A large portion of the alum chapter I was a part of in Phoenix was from there and I know they would love to see their chapter back and would support it in anyway they could.

Thanks for the information!

My little sister decided not to go through recruitment. She mentioned this because her NAU 100 teacher is a Tri-Delt, who said something to the class about sorority presentations. She thought it was happening in the spring. Maybe that is when colonization is occurring.

I haven't been back to the campus in 4+ years but the last time I was there there where a couple of frat houses that were "available" as the chapters were no longer on campus. I guess a sorority could always "buy" one of the frat houses and fix it up, probably would be cheaper than building one. I'm not even sure where they would build.

Not going to happen.

There is no available land on campus to build. The fraternities are holding tight on their properties. The last two available lots were sold to Sigma Chi and Sigma Phi Epsilon, both of whom built very nice facilities last year. With no parking for the occupants.

It's about parking lots, and real estate prices.

An idea that's been bandied about is to buy a property on Park, just off campus, and build a high-rise and sell or lease floors to sororities and fraternities. There are at least three high rises off Park and Speedway now since your last visit to Tucson (ugly monstrosities, ruined the West University neighborhood). The problem is location, location, location. Being competitive at UofA means owning something on 1st or 2nd, between Mountain and Campbell (actually, Cherry for the sororities. AXO has struggled and part of the reason is the location of their house - east of Cherry, almost to Campbell. The PNMs don't like walking that far in the August heat, although they sure beat tracks to the fraternity houses that are around AXO).

It would take a massive culture shift to accept alternative housing. In the meantime, the chapters are (seeingly) just fine with those huge NM classes. We shall see what the tipping point is, and when it comes, I'll be on the sofa with my soda and popcorn.

^^^ is there room on your sofa for me?

As winter approaches here in the heartland, can I have the third spot on that sofa in the desert?

Always!

Yup. Now anyone else needs to get their own chair, or sit on the floor.

To me, it seems like if certain groups had floors in a high rise, while others maintained their regular stand-alone houses, that kind of discrepancy could cause groups in the high rises to suffer with their facilities being perceived as less than the stand alone houses

It would need to be an all or none move to make it work. This does remind me of something, I know Arizona State had toyed with the idea of a high rise building for the sororities and getting them out of Adelphi. What ever happened with that idea?

I think really cool high rise units would be, well, cool. But I'm a big city girl. I'm picturing a large chapter room looking out over campus with all the bells and whistles of a luxury apartment building, including gym, first floor retail, coffee shop, etc. While it wouldn't be traditional, if a couple sororities and fraternities took over an equivalent amount of square footage and had them done to the nines it could be really modern and eclectic.

Okay, this sounds AMAZING. I am a historian, and I live for the traditions, but this sounds like it is making the best (and I do mean the BEST) of the situation :)

Oh I think it would be cool, I just think it could be a problem when ABC has the big, beautiful house all to themselves and XYZ just gets a floor in a building they have to share with a bunch of other groups.

I agree it would have to be all or nothing. I'm not familiar with the campus, but I feel like it's unlikely that groups would be willing to give up their houses.

But if XYZ has a snazzy new gym, parking garage, Starbucks on the first floor, and concierge service. Sign me up for XYZ. If I get Starbucks and a gym, I don't care who else lives there. If I was 19 and it was cute fraternity sharing the building, even better.

True! I didn't even think of it that way

You got it - that's the culture shift that needs to happen. PLUS add in that the sorority houses are OLD, with sleeping porches. And the new options have single rooms, semi-private bathrooms, etc. And are right around the corner from everything on University Blvd. This ain't the SEC, small town MS or Bama; we're talking lots of PNMs from California and they are into change, the latest thing, etc. Tradition is what happened last year. Not last century, or the one before that.

It's gonna happen. It's a matter of time. Unless the pendulum takes a huge swing in the opposite direction, and the NM classes drop back down into the 50-60 range. Which they were five short years ago.

Yeah, I'm talking a purpose built high rise, not just taking over 12 units of a building. Eeew, that would be doomed to failure. Think of the possibilities for that at NYU, DePaul, any of the urban schools with burgeoning Greek systems and absolutely no possibility of getting houses.

I get very irritated (beyond annoyed) with people who are hanging on to the past. After all, the earth is NOT flat. Seriously. I want to see this alternative greek housing concept take hold and catch fire. Let's be honest and truthful. Some of those older facilities need to be torn down and rebuilt. The plumbing is a nightmare. So is the electrical. The windows. The HVAC system. On and on and on. But noooooo. You have alumnae who are all invested in keeping it like it was when THEY were in school. Good grief, women. Get a life.

At Illinois, going back as far as my recruitment in the 90's, the big houses were a liability, because they brought a two-year live-in requirement with them at a time when campus apartments were booming. Who wants to live in a quad room with no A/C that your boyfriend isn't allowed to visit and fight over the six parking spots behind the house when you could live in a luxury apartment for a comparable cost?

But then again, Illinois is a far cry from the SEC.

Where would the fraternities have parties?

I don't think it is just the alums who want to hold onto the tradition, there are plenty of girls who arrive on campus who think living in a big amazing mansion is going to be like something they see in the movies. Little do they know that they might be crammed into a tiny room (not the one they showed you on house tours day), it might have little daylight, and there will plenty of nights you get no sleep because someone is making lots of noise. The romance of all this wears off after a year... and after two years of being required to live in, you can hardly stand it.

But despite this, young women still want those big beautiful mansions. Campuses where you are only required/allowed to live in one year, have the best situation: You can have a taste of it, but you can also get the chance to live in an awesome apartment with a pool, your other greek friends, and you get to have guys in your room. When a campus has a requirement that people live-in for three years in their sororities, my advice would be to pick a different campus.

I totally see the appeal of a dorm-style apartment, but when you are 18 and you see those amazing pictures of greek houses, that is far more tempting. For many young women, these sororities have living spaces furnished as nice or nicer than their parents homes. We need to remember that many young women picked these campuses because of the appeal of that actual sorority houses... chances are they aren't thinking about the condition of the plumbing, AC or what it is like to be in a cold dorm.

URI
 

As a long time member of the Rhody greek community, I wouldn't consider us to be a great candidate for further expansion at this time. Sure, there was a huge jump in the retention of PNMs this year--but that's only one year. I'd like to see the initiation rate for these large classes, and if next year's formal recruitment is consistent with this year's.

Also, the only sorority on campus without a house (KD) took the largest NM class, so they aren't hurting for members based on lack of housing. Greek Life has never been consistent at URI, so I for one would like to see if this positive trend continues for a few years before adding another chapter. Besides, lots of sorority members like to live off campus after a year or two, so larger chapter size=more freedom in choice of living arrangements.

In the basement or the designated party wing.

Can someone who has been in Waco more recently than I have tell us if their Panhellenic Building has space for additional sororities or just the current 8 chapters? Pledge classes in the 90s is ridiculous for that school.

For those not familiar with Baylor, they have an on campus Panhellenic building that contains private chapter rooms/suites designated for each group. Baylor owns the building but the groups decorate their own space how they see fit. There are no live-ins. If they add new chapters there would have to be something to accommodate these groups that is of equal comparison. Baylor is not the type of school where "different" would fly with the PNMs.

Comrades,

Looks like they have 9, so one is available as it was previously KD's.

http://www.baylor.edu/stacyriddleforum/

So with only 9 suites available, what happens when they add another group, and then need to expand again?

As ComradesTrue mentions, Baylor is very traditional (I attended 2 years in the 80s). I would assume if more than 1 group came on they would use the SUB or dorms like they used to for recruitment and chapter meetings before expanding. Sounds like their chapter sizes are closing in on Ole Miss and Arkansas territory.

If memory serves me, BU had chapters of KD, Sigma Kappa and DG at one time. I wonder if any are planning to recolonize?

Is there any way they could build onto this building? I was hoping for a picture of it but didn't see one. Is there room near it to allow that?

Also, do they have anything resembling unofficial sorority houses off campus where sisters can live together? Or is this the sort of campus where you live on campus all 4 years? This whole concept of lodges at big Greek schools fascinates me.

Stacy Riddle was built with expansion in mind. I don't know if the plan was to build up or out, but I remember people saying that if we expanded, rooms would be created.

http://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunica...ory&story=4495

On the second comment, several sororities and fraternities (usually owned by an older alum or a current student's parents) have informal houses or blocks of houses where members decide to live together. I don't know how many of them house large numbers of members, but I'd wager the answer is not many. I lived in a house of four, and knew plenty of others in similar houses.

All they can do is wait for BU to decide to expand. At that time, they can submit packets for consideration which will be voted on by Panhellenic. Sometimes colleges will agree that a former chapter will have a first right of refusal, although in my personal experience, they will also often not honour their initial agreement. Not that I'm bitter . . .

I would also be VERY surprised if Sigma Kappa wanted on again this soon.

Baylor quota was 78+6 optional juniors.

Ok good to know. I had just seen the initial two results which were both in the 90s and assumed that was approx quota. Still, 78+6 (juniors? not sophomores? interesting..) is huge for a relatively small campus of <14K undergrads.

Oh I totally agree. I wasn't being argumentative, just adding the missing data. :)

SK at Baylor closed in 1994. Is 20 years considered soon for that campus? Just curious.

I think SWTXbelle might have been thinking of Kappa Delta, which closed there in 2010.

Yep. Thanks for the correction.

Okay. Makes more sense. I know memories can be long, but I wasn't sure.