Another person chiming in late without reading through the posts and without knowing much about the topic. As someone stated just a few posts back, there were very clear rules that were not followed. Sometimes it's best not to comment if you can't truly contribute to the discussion, especially if you are unwilling to do the research or at least read the previous posts.

Exactly. I just turned 17 this past Saturday and among the younger sorors I am the oldest. They call me "lightly seasoned." LMMFAO!!!

Not to mention the misuses of who and what.

Awww shucks now. :o

Okay, oldie...I love how you think that you are a "somebody" on here, yet it only took reading a few of your posts to conclude that you're stupid. With regard to who I am, you've already concluded that I am a "nobody with a few posts", let's just leave it at that. :)

You don't get it do you? It's been happening to every cultural group that's stepped foot on this land since colonization. It's how we came up with the term the melting pot. No one can twist or obliterate YOUR personal cultural practices, or change how you decide to practice them. You can choose to eat your abuelas flautas over going to Taco Bell, I can choose to celebrate St. Patricks day by going to mass rather than drinking myself stupid while wearing plastic shamrocks. What we can't change is how others choose to see our culture. Like I said earlier, these things have become part of pop culture America and as a result, out of our control.

I don't know the story about the UCSD Pikes so I'm not going to comment on that, but thats a whole different monster than what my post was about in the first place. Nice try though.

Yes she gets it, she just disagrees with you.

Then she should accept the way some of her cultural traditions have changed since being introduced into American society. Since she doesn't, it leads me to believe she doesn't get it.

Why would anybody have to accept something that's wrong? That's stupid.

No, stupid is bitching that places like Taco Bell and "THEY" people celebrating Cinco De Mayo is destroying your culture. I just wanted to point out that it's not just the MExican-American's that have had their cultural practices commercialized.

Context is everything.

Where did she say that it was just the Mexican-Americans that have seen a commercialization/Americanization/cannibalization of their culture. She was responding to a post where the preservation of latino culture was looked upon favorably and she provided an general example of how it wasn't. You took issue because she used the word "they" and assumed by that she meant white people and she clearly replied that the use of "they" didn't solely represent white folk.

Ok, I would really like to understand this. I am not being sarcastic or facetious. I am genuinely wanting some deeper understanding of the whole thing.

Here are the things I think I have learned from this thread. Correct me if I am wrong...

1. Each d9 group has their own steps... For someone else to do the steps, it would be like an ADPi doing a crown handsign instead of a diamond. (Yes, I am aware that handsigns were not originated by NPC groups...) You just wouldn't do it, b/c it's as clear as night and day that the crown just isn't appropriate for an ADPi to use. Because, everyone just knows the crown is a ZTA thing.
So, by ZTA using the steps they were offensive and unoriginal. Correct?

2. Sprite fucked up the judging.

3. ZTA should have made up their own steps and choreography. So, based on the scoring system, the judges should have recognized the unoriginal steps and ZTA should have been dropped down in placement.

You are essentially correct.

Thanks!

This is pretty much how the thread started off although since then other bigger issues regarding culture and American society have come up and are now being discussed. But yes, although D9 groups make up new moves all the time (to keep things creative and original) some steps each group is known for doing and some have been in their orgs for years, which might be known as "signature" steps within the org; meaning that every chapter (among the stepping chapters) knows these steps in some form although modifications can be found from chapter to chapter. Those in the D9 and followers of stepping, can see a signature step and recognize which group does it right away. We do however do eachother's steps when we are paying tribute and it is obvious (usually a sorority will tribute a fraternity or vice versa).

As for the judges, most agree that the judges should be greek and be very familiar with the stepping tradition and frequent stepshows. In the case of the Sprite Step-Off, celebrities were used, not greeks with a good knowledge of stepping. Also rules were clearly in place and the judges obviously didn't judge correctly in the area of creativity/originality regarding ZTA. The other issues are about the Sprite Step off being promoted as a D9 event, used D9 heavily in their advertising, but yet let others enter the competition which was not clear to some.

No I took issue because it has happened to ALL cultures here in America, not just the ones THEY consider ethnic. It's not just a black thing or a latino thing, its something that Europeans have faced as well. That needs to be known.

If this was your only point then you need to read Ignatiev's "How The Irish Became White." What happened to "white" ethnic groups is nothing like what happened to racial and ethnic minority groups.

The following is the background logic behind the commercialization/cannibalization/Americanization of cultures:

It is true that ethnic groups like Italian Americans are considered white and, like you are saying, members who choose to highlight their ethnic identity (instead of completely assimilate into whiteness 100% of the time) are often stereotyped as an "other." The same goes for other white ethnic groups, including extreme representations of Jewish Americans. STILL not the same as what occurred with racial and ethnic minorities because members of white ethnic groups know exactly when to play up or play down their group traits (with exception for those who have to work extra hard to account for physical characteristics). When white privilege and group advantage based on whiteness are at stake, you won't find too much confusion on how to play the "white game." Racial and ethnic minorities (who can't pass for white) never have the ability to assimilate 100% and forego everything that makes them identifiable as an "other."

Everyone is part of a socially constructed racial and ethnic grouping--even "mixed people." The problem is that whiteness is considered mainstream and void of race and ethnicity. This gave whiteness power and "make believe" racial and cultural ambiguity. "I'm white so I can objectively talk about topics without 'race' clouding my perspective" is the same thing as men saying "I'm a man so I can objectively talk about topics without 'gender' clouding my perspective."

Ahem, I am not chiming in late. Have you not checked back in over on the ZTA forum in which I agreed with you...? And since when is an opinion not a contribution to a discussion? I've been on GC long enough to know when to chime in and when to just lurk and I've definitely had my share of time on both sides of that fence, thank you very much.

This is what I learned also, but it seems like since the judges themselves had no knowledge of these specific steps then they couldn't judge appropriately, hence Sprite f-ing up the judging and allowing ZTA to win. (See? I do actually read the whole thread).

I understand that there were rules set out, but I feel (my opinion here) that they were slightly unclear - the judges would have called ZTA out on their lack of creativity IF they had observed it - BUT they didn't. I think that makes the rules unclear, at least to the judges.

At the end of the day though, ZTA won. Period. If this competition was meant to include only D9 orgs, then they need to change the rules and the judges.

I will look into Ignatiev, being as I am Irish/Italian it should be interesting. This is getting deep now, I guess you can't talk about tacos and shamrocks without bringing up race. Maybe I didn't convey the message as I had wanted to, but I don't think it's possible to keep our cultural practices solely "in house" here in America and not for others to experience/exploit/commercialize. I think what we have is a lot of new immigrants (new meaning last 100 years) culture FINALLY becoming part of americana now. I hate to say it but if I truly wanted to experience my grandmothers heritage I'd have to hop a flight to Italy, there's no place here in America that I'd be able to experience it.

Fixed that for you. ;)

That doesn't make the rules unclear, it makes the judges unqualified, hence Sprite effing it up. No that isn't ZTAs fault, but that does account for a "scoring discrepency". In addition, given that ZTA had been stepping for 16 years, I'm sure the chapter (and possibly the girls involved) knew that those were borrowed steps/themes.

Sprite felt the need to "fix" it well after the final competition. That was just dumb.

Then perhaps AKA should have educated the Zetas when they taught them how to step 16 years ago...

Disputing scores is not uncommon at these shows.

Who's to say they didn't?

That's true. They should have had a good ole 'step off' between the co-winners and let the most creative team win :)

.

Fixed that one.

Am I the only one who is still amused by people saying:
"I don't know jack about stepping and I don't know jack about step shows but ZTA was the best. They were totally awesome!"

Watching ZTA reminded me of KidzBopKids except KidzBop might be a bit more original. I mean at least they take songs made in the last decade. lol. I can hear their stepcoach announcing now:
"Next years routine will include hot new features like:
The Ivy Stance
Pretty Girls wear Crowns
The Duck Walk
Twirling Canes
That leaningbacktogetherinaline thing they do"

In summation: Next years Show will be called "Bring it On: Step up to the Challenge" lol.
AKA: You better bring it. (flips hair)
ZTA: Its already been brought! (rolls neck like a 1 month old baby)

Ahh, lovely debate

I know you're not pointing your finger at me for that one - you'd definitely be putting words in my mouth there.

I am coming at this as an outsider and I admit that. Do I think the Zetas looked great and was I entertained by their routine - absolutely. BUT, we are all going to naturally root for our own orgs, that's only natural. You can't fault GCers from ZTA and other NPC orgs for congratulating ZTA, especially those of us not familiar with stepping.

Go 'head and just stay in the corner LOL

It didn't sound like that was directed at you. You are at least acknowledging that you're not an expert and seem open to learn.

Some other folks on here are like "I don't care if I have absolutely no idea what's going on. The ZTAs were the best steppers ever! They were so unique! Anyone who thinks otherwise is racist!"

SPRING 91 REPRESENT!!!


*poof* (Disappear)

Perhaps rooting for your own org is natural, perhaps not. But the whole point is that people, not necessarily just you, keep saying ZTA deserved the win, ZTA was the best, the rules were unclear, there were no rules, when this has been proven not to be the case. If you and other NPCers want to root for ZTA just because, that is fine, no one can tell you not to. The problem is when after having admitted that you are unfamiliar with step shows/the process and being provided with valid information as to why the win was in fact "suspect" you're (general you) making claims about what should have happened with zero knowledge base to make said claim.

Thank you.

I feel like Sprite handled this all sorts of wrong and I hope they learn from this year and make some corrections in next year's competition.

At the risk of sounding corny... Don't hate! Educate! :D

There's a lot of educating going on. Several people choose not to read the information.

Thank you for being the exception :)

SEE! LOL, I was trying not to go there, I was being fair. To the bolded, please, just no.

The Bring it on reference is hilarious....that's my movie, though :o

Man, Im never gonna get out of here. Its cool though because there's gonna be a sountrack to next years show and they're gonna call it
"Step Up or Step Off: The Official Bring It On Soundtrack"
It'll feature tracks like:
Brick House
Got to Be Real
Atomic Dawg
Candy
Da Sigma Walk
Pretty Girl
Ice Cream Paint Job
**ZTA special request songs to go with their 90s routine:
No Matter What They Say (Lil Kim)
Hard Knock Life (JayZ)
OPP [Renamed OPS] (Naughty by Nautre)
Gettin Jiggy Wit It (Will Smith)

*All songs will be performed by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5UBeQcgjs

And as far as the "I dont know jack comments" those weren't directed at you SthrnZeta.

No, no, no, no, nooooooooooo LOL

I'm thru.

As long as these aren't synonymous to you.

Ever heard of "Little Italies" that exist in many large urban centers? Large urban centers have places that are epicenters for racial, ethnic, and cultural identities (not for every group, but for those that have the largest concentration of members who wish to retain their identity). These places exist so that people wouldn't have to leave America to experience their culture.

When you read Ignatiev, you will be reminded of what a "ghetto" is, what "ghettos" meant for immigrant populations, and why this is different from what "ghettos" became for Black and Hispanic Americans.