GreekChat.com Forums - FYI: The TRUTH about Kwanzaa

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It is unfortunate that the federal government is using such elementary school definitions of racism, prejudice, and discrimination.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Again, it's not the same. Close to winning (second place) is not the same as winning (first place). There is no opinion. Thinking about rape is not the same as raping someone. You can ask the courts that convict rapists for actions and the victims of rapists who suffered from actions. That was a bad analogy so let's stick with my "First place" and "Second place" analogy instead.

You must have a short memory. You should apologize. I would apologize to you if I made such an accusation. It's only fair.

-Rudey

Whether I finished first or second isn't the same arguement as using racist comment vs. insensitive remarks. Remember I also said that Racism is a strong word to use to describe this article. Your memory seems to be short as well.

But we're off the subject of this article now. Point is, why does it bother the author or anybody who supports the author's view points so much?

Quote:

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
No.

You also can't account for what people are thinking or how close they are coming to being a particular thing. If the person is being a bigot, just call the person a bigot (which is what I thought you did). If they are an extreme bigot, call them an extreme bigot. Bringing in the concepts racist and racism are not as evident just from reading that particular article.

I did call him a bigot. We've jump off course with the debate.

I'm just debating that being close is just as bad. But, that's my opinion, I won't throw that in as fact.

My beliefs is that the problem with racism these days is that alot of it is "subliminal" and it can be "defended" because it's dressed up in intellectual conversation.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Whether I finished first or second isn't the same arguement as using racist comment vs. insensitive remarks. Remember I also said that Racism is a strong word to use to describe this article. Your memory seems to be short as well.

But we're off the subject of this article now. Point is, why does it bother the author or anybody who supports the author's view points so much?

You're not making sense. You should apologize.

As for the subject of the article, I don't know there are many that are bothered by the holiday (some in the AKA forum) or don't celebrate it. I suppose if you want their answer you could ask them.

Heck maybe Hoosier just posted an article and celebrates Kwanzaa. Then you may owe him an apology also.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
You're not making sense. You should apologize.

As for the subject of the article, I don't know there are many that are bothered by the holiday (some in the AKA forum) or don't celebrate it. I suppose if you want their answer you could ask them.

Heck maybe Hoosier just posted an article and celebrates Kwanzaa. Then you may owe him an apology also.

-Rudey

Alot of things don't make sense to you Rudey. Get off the apology tip. Neither of you deserve one nor will you get one. I celebrate Ramadan but I won't go out and post a article bashing it. :rolleyes:

Quote:

I don't know there are many that are bothered by the holiday

For the author to question the HOLIDAY, states that something about it bothers him.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Alot of things don't make sense to you Rudey. Get off the apology tip. Neither of you deserve one nor will you get one. I celebrate Ramadan but I won't go out and post a article bashing it. :rolleyes:

For the author to call it a CHUMP HOLIDAY, states that something about it bothers him.:rolleyes:

"A lot of things don't make sense to you" either Shortfuse. That's an empty claim though since it really applies to everyone on earth.

You don't have to apologize since you made a mistake and accused me, but I know in you're heart you're good so it's OK.

You should email the author. You can also ask the girls in the AKA forum too why they didn't like kwanzaa. As for Ramadan, you're on your own if you dislike it but celebrate it.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
It is unfortunate that the federal government is using such elementary school definitions of racism, prejudice, and discrimination.

Considering that the main thrust of the education about racism and prejudice is being directed at the children in elementary school (the formative years) it really should come as a surprise that the language reflects it. The link itself comes from a new iniative that has been tried in New Brunswick, to try and eliminate racist/bigoted attitudes before they take root; a iniative which will now be the standard across Canada for elemantry students (well except in Alberta)

I used the link because a) it's in my bookmarks for the kids at school (volunteer teach) when race and racism is discussed; and b) it's a good, quick introduction to the basic understanding of how broadly racism is applied in Canadian society.

Other links of a more "advanced" level from the federal government:
A Canada for All: Canada's Action Plan Against Racism - An Overview
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/multi/pla...view_vue_e.cfm
Racism, Stop It!
http://www.pch.gc.ca/march%2D21%2Dmars/index_e.cfm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
"A lot of things don't make sense to you" either Shortfuse. That's an empty claim though since it really applies to everyone on earth.

You don't have to apologize since you made a mistake and accused me, but I know in you're heart you're good so it's OK.

You should email the author. You can also ask the girls in the AKA forum too why they didn't like kwanzaa. As for Ramadan, you're on your own if you dislike it but celebrate it.

-Rudey

:rolleyes:

So Hoosier should be on his own then.

I mean he "might" celebrate it and dislike it as well.

I don't care why the girls in the AKA forum don't like kwanzaa.

This articles goes alot deeper than just not liking Kwanzaa. I don't have to apologize because I'm not wrong. I'm just going off of what you said.

Quote:

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
It is unfortunate that the federal government is using such elementary school definitions of racism, prejudice, and discrimination.

It looks like that's what Canada's government has for a definition. I didn't even know national governments defined those terms.

Does anyone know if the U.S. has "official" definitions like that for racism, etc.?

Quote:

Originally posted by Shortfuse
:rolleyes:

So Hoosier should be on his own then.

I mean he "might" celebrate it and dislike it as well.

It's possible. I really have no idea. Hoosier would probably know best.

I think the guy that created Kwanzaa sounds like a not-so-nice guy and I don't understand where corn fits into the picture. Plus I'm not of African descent and in need of a new holiday. So based on that, I personally will skip it. I'd wish you a happy Kwanzaa but you don't celebrate either. We are at a dearth for Kwanzaa believers it seems.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by KSigkid
It looks like that's what Canada's government has for a definition. I didn't even know national governments defined those terms.

Does anyone know if the U.S. has "official" definitions like that for racism, etc.?

Even using that new "Definition", he hasn't made the case for how it applies.

The sad thing is that if nobody had thrown that card around, maybe people could have just addressed the article instead in this thread.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Even using that new "Definition", he hasn't made the case for how it applies.

-Rudey

Oh, I wasn't saying that he had. I just never realized that governments had official definitions for racism or other terms. I never really thought about it.

As far as the article, I really don't know enough about the holiday to comment. However, I don't think using inflammatory language
like "chump holiday" ever works when you're trying to prove a point.

Re: FYI: The TRUTH about Kwanzaa

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
Jewish World Review Dec. 31, 1999/22 Teves, 5760
Tony Snow

The TRUTH about Kwanzaa

http://www.jewishworldreview.com --

BLACKS IN AMERICA have suffered an endless series of insults and degradations, the latest of which goes by the name of Kwanzaa.

Ron Karenga (aka Dr. Maulana Ron Karenga) invented the seven-day feast (Dec. 26-Jan. 1) in 1966, branding it a black alternative to Christmas. The idea was to celebrate the end of what he considered the Christmas-season exploitation of African Americans.

According to the official Kwanzaa Web site -- as opposed, say, to the Hallmark Cards Kwanzaa site -- the celebration was designed to foster "conditions that would enhance the revolutionary social change for the masses of Black Americans" and provide a "reassessment, reclaiming, recommitment, remembrance, retrieval, resumption, resurrection and rejuvenation of those principles (Way of Life) utilized by Black Americans' ancestors."

Karenga postulated seven principles: unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity and faith, each of which gets its day during Kwanzaa week. He and his votaries also crafted a flag of black nationalism and a pledge: "We pledge allegiance to the red, black, and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one G-d of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom, and black self-determination."

Now, the point: There is no part of Kwanzaa that is not fraudulent. Begin with the name. The celebration comes from the Swahili term "matunda yakwanza," or "first fruit," and the festival's trappings have Swahili names -- such as "ujima" for "collective work and responsibility" or "muhindi," which are ears of corn celebrants set aside for each child in a family.

Unfortunately, Swahili has little relevance for American blacks. Most slaves were ripped from the shores of West Africa. Swahili is an East African tongue.

To put that in perspective, the cultural gap between Senegal and Kenya is as dramatic as the chasm that separates, say, London and Tehran. Imagine singing "G-d Save the Queen" in Farsi, and you grasp the enormity of the gaffe.

Worse, Kwanzaa ceremonies have no discernible African roots. No culture on earth celebrates a harvesting ritual in December, for instance, and the implicit pledges about human dignity don't necessarily jibe with such still-common practices as female circumcision and polygamy. The inventors of Kwanzaa weren't promoting a return to roots; they were shilling for Marxism. They even appropriated the term "ujima," which Julius Nyrere cited when he uprooted tens of thousands of Tanzanians and shipped them forcibly to collective farms, where they proved more adept at cultivating misery than banishing hunger.

Even the rituals using corn don't fit. Corn isn't indigenous to Africa. Mexican Indians developed it, and the crop was carried worldwide by white colonialists.

The fact is, there is no Ur-African culture. The continent remains stubbornly tribal. Hutus and Tutsis still slaughter one another for sport.

Go to Kenya, where I taught briefly as a young man, and you'll see endless hostility between Kikuyu, Luo, Luhya and Masai. Even South African politics these days have more to do with tribal animosities than ideological differences.

Moreover, chaos too often prevails over order. Warlords hold sway in Somalia, Eritrea, Liberia and Zaire. Genocidal maniacs have wiped out millions in Rwanda, Uganda and Ethiopia. The once-shining hopes for Kenya have vanished.

Detroit native Keith Richburg writes in his extraordinary book, "Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa," that "this strange place defies even the staunchest of optimists; it drains you of hope ..."

Richburg, who served for three years as the African bureau chief for The Washington Post, offers a challenge for the likes of Karenga: "Talk to me about Africa and my black roots and my kinship with my African brothers and I'll throw it back in your face, and then I'll rub your nose in the images of rotting flesh."

His book concludes: "I have been here, and I have seen -- and frankly, I want no part of it. .... By an accident of birth, I am a black man born in America, and everything I am today -- my culture and my attitudes, my sensibilities, loves and desires -- derives from that one simple and irrefutable fact."

Nobody ever ennobled a people with a lie or restored stolen dignity through fraud. Kwanzaa is the ultimate chump holiday -- Jim Crow with a false and festive wardrobe. It praises practices -- "cooperative economics, and collective work and responsibility" -- that have succeeded nowhere on earth and would mire American blacks in endless backwardness.

Our treatment of Kwanzaa provides a revealing sign of how far we have yet to travel on the road to reconciliation. The white establishment has thrown in with it, not just to cash in on the business, but to patronize black activists and shut them up.

This year, President Clinton signed his fourth Kwanzaa proclamation. He crooned: "The symbols and ceremony of Kwanzaa, evoking the rich history and heritage of African Americans, remind us that our nation draws much of its strength from our diversity."

But our strength, as Richburg points out, comes from real principles: tolerance, brotherhood, hard work, personal responsibility, equality before the law. If Americans really cared about racial healing, they would focus on those ideas -- and not on a made-up rite that mistakes segregationism for spirituality and fiction for history.

Tony Snow Archives

©1999, Creators Syndicate

Tony, on his radio show today, told listeners to spread this srticle in any way possible.

Because I like quoting GeekyPenguin, who also happens to be a GC moderator:

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
This post is a violation of the GreekChat.com TOS and should be deleted.

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Considering that the main thrust of the education about racism and prejudice is being directed at the children in elementary school (the formative years) it really should come as a surprise that the language reflects it.

It figures. :(

This program will be largely ineffective for a number of reasons. The federal government probably knows that already.

Re: Re: FYI: The TRUTH about Kwanzaa

Quote:

Originally posted by AXiD670
Because I like quoting GeekyPenguin, who also happens to be a GC moderator:

Technically if Tony Snow is the author and asked people to share the article...

-Rudey