Perhaps I've hit a nerve, GP?

Um, no. You are experiencing NEWBIE MADNESS, or NEO MADNESS as the Divine 9 likes to call it. Think of it like religion: When you get baptized Catholic, it doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about the Church.

You have never participated in member selection from the side of an initiated member. You do not understand it. Maybe someday you will and your views will change, maybe they won't.

But until then, quit acting like you're Betty Quick. You know very little of the NPC compared to the women on this board who have been initiated and active members for 30 years.

Does one have to know everything about sororities in order to recognize the symptoms of "elitism?"

And, I do think I hit a nerve or you wouldn't have felt the need to strike back personally.

It isn't elitism. It's careful selection of membership. That is a hallmark of sororities. They are not designed to be all-inclusive. If that was the intention of our founders, why have a private ritual? Why go through a recruitment process? Take anyone, willy-nilly, or have an open ritual. The reason we don't do that is because not anyone can or should be able to join.

Advise at a collegiate recruitment next year. Maybe that will help you understand.

Oh for crying out loud in a bucket!

You are someone who had a previous connection to the sorority she initiated into, who pursued AI on her own for a long time with one group and did it because she felt in her heart it was something she really wanted, having no idea whether or not this was something other groups/people did. You're not a crazy nut shopping for any sorority that will take her. No one has ever said you are, but you're acting like they did.

As far as your anti-elitism and in-group comments, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE IN GROUP TO SOME POINT, OR YOU WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN A BID FROM A SORORITY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA.

I just don't understand why you are getting offended when the things being said have nothing whatsoever to do with your situation.

That's a very good question, 33girl. I'm glad you asked.

I teach judo on the side. Although most of the kids and young adults are in my class for the exercise and fun of it, I also get some students who take martial arts because, for one reason or another, they have been bullied, picked on, and been branded as "outcasts."

It breaks my heart. Fortunately, martial arts is the great equalizer, and I've seen some remarkable success stories in these kids.

You have to understand that some of the comments made here are so much like what I see happening to these kids.

I don't like to see anyone "labeled" or "branded" like this. If someone has been cut in college.. so what? Maybe they had lousy grades. Maybe they were shy. Maybe they were a late bloomer.

I have a soft heart. I think that you've seen enough of my posts to realize that I love to help people and don't like to see them hurt.

And, yes GP, I do understand the mutual selection process.. but unless I'm misunderstanding your posts, it looks to me like you want to cut potential AIs off at the knees if they were cut in college before they even got a chance to try.

If they were cut for grades, or an extraneous commitment, I see no problem with them AIing. If they were cut for character, I certainly do. For example, tinydancer is a GC AI, who I supported throughout her process. She is an excellent example of what the AI process SHOULD be used for.

If our chapter at Purdue thought a woman was unworthy of Gamma Phi Beta 20 years ago, that is their decision and I support them in it. AI should not be a back door for women cut in college. It is an avenue for membership for women who did not have the opportunity in college because of work, sports, family obligations, etc.

I am appalled that people on GC encourage women who were cut 3-4 times to AI. It happens. Read some of the stories in this forum.

Okay we are completely off topic and no wonder there is debate on whether to close the subforum or not when certain people(you know who you are and I shouldn't have to name you, and everyone else reading this thread knows who you are) are behaving like five year olds.

Back and forth bickering because neither person can RESPECT THE OTHER PERSON'S OPINION!!!!!!!!

Do you not think that PNAM's aren't seeing your bickering, with your letters in your signature?

I for one would be thinking "do I want this person as my sister when they are arguing on the net and whatnot".

Trust me, I have been there arguing with another member of greekchat (a sister no less) and only because we WEREN'T RESPECTING EACH OTHERS OPINIONS!!!!! It's basically come down to putting her on ignore because I don't want to give ADPi a bad name because our opinions differ from one another and we just don't "mesh" well.

I know it's not the same thing, y'all are in different chapters, but it doesn't matter b/c in my opinion your giving your respective chapters a bad image b/c your fighting with one another.

You both have very strong opinions. Be happy about that. Respect that. But don't fight over it.

Again, I've learned the hard way.



Now back to AI. We need to get back to the point that we, as intiated members, have to emphasize the point that AI IS NOT as easy as it looks. In fact it is harder than FR. It is much more complex and takes much more time especially when sororities are still trying to work out the kinks.

Now I can only speak for ADPi and I will only say that we are working to inform the alumnae associations and chapters so that they are aware of AI and the stigma attached to AI slowly disappears.

I think the problem is, is that a lot of initiated members to their repsective chapters are not fully aware of AI and the process and they somehow think that the PNAM doesn't have to "do" what we as collegiate initiated members had too. Again, only speaking for ADPi, I know that the women who go through AI had/have to do the same things I did as an Alpha. In fact, these women aren't getting the same experiences I did. Other than learning about ADPi and greek life I got to do so many other things as a collegian that these women will never get to do.

AI isn't for everyone. As an PNAM chapters want someone who is going to make the long term committment. Which is somewhat the same and different in collegiate FR. In FR they are looking for the short term (college) committment and hoping it will extend a long term lifetime committment.

Let's get back to discussing what is important, how we can make sure the PNAM's on this board are well knowledged and how to make sure any threads they start are discrete, just like a FR thread.

Feel free to agree with me. Feel free to disagree with me. But do not start fighting with me over my opinions. Because I am most certainly not fighting with anyone. I'm stating facts and my opinions.

Well, I suppose, GP, that we'll just have to disagree on this.

I know that I'm not the same person I was when I was in college. I would hope that I'm better-- because life gives us lessons.. and if we pay attention to them, we can learn and grow.

To stigmatize someone who may have been a shrinking violet 20 years ago when she was in college is not something I would do.

I believe everyone deserves a chance to go after their dreams. I would never think to cut someone off before they even get to the starting line. If they're right for a GLO, they are, if they're not, they're not.. and they will never make it through the AI process. I have enough faith in my GLO to be able to tell the difference.. don't you?

As Tony Robbins says, "The sum of the past does not equal the future."

I never thought of GC as hurting my chance, I thought of it as a place, to share my thoughts and ideas and if I happen to have a really bad day, a place where possibly someone can point out a silver lining. A place where I can get my thoughts out and a place to get my "thinking straight" in terms of this process. A place where others have gone through (somewhat) this and can understand how I am feeling.

Since GC is the “most popular gathering place” for greeks online. I would have be an idiot not to know that (inter)national officers are reading these boards. I have seen some effects of GLO “policy” changes because of something posted on GC.

I know for one that I am very easy to identify. My life if an open book and if you ask me a direct question, I will answer it. I have nothing to hide, why should I? I understand that some may have things to hide, I don't. (The only thing that I will not answer is who is the group that I am pursuing at the moment).

Of course, I already said this (or eluded to it), either earlier in this thread or the related thread.

Exactly.

AI is NOT for women who went through recruitment and didn't join. It is for women who did not have the opportunity to join in college. PERIOD. Those are the facts of how we look at AI.

In the very rare cases, it is for a woman who pledged our group, never initiated (for whatever reason) and wants to renew her commitment.

She is an international officer so if y'all want to continue trying to tell my sorority what to do, go ahead. This is our policy.

First off, thank you to Geeky Penguin for your kind words. I had wonderful support from the sisters here on GC.

That being said, I would like to give my 2 cents about the process:

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!! It must be the librarian in me, but I looked THOROUGHLY at the sororities before I made my decision. I was interested in 4 at first, but Gamma Phi "spoke " to me in an incredible way.

It is PREFERABLE (though not always possible, and I understand this) to have a sponsor who knows you well and can make inquiries for you.

It's already been mentioned, but KNOW the reason why you want to do this. (Be honest, now)

I certainly don't claim to know everything about AI or Gamma Phi - I've only been a member for about a year and a half - but I think those three points are important. I am grateful every day that I have had this opportunity.

Imagine you are an international officer, you're reading the AI forum here on GC and you're reading someone's story.

You have recently been contacted by someone (or your organization with someone's information) who is interested in AI and you've emailed them and they seem nice. You start thinking - hmm, maybe it's the same person.

You discover it is - then you read in their thread that they have contacted 5 groups at once.

So now you know that this woman is likely going to be meeting with 4 other sororities in your area. If she doesn't stand out in a big way after your first meeting or email contact - whatever - what in the world would consider you to continue meeting with her?

She obviously has other plans. Back up plans...or maybe your group IS her backup.

This woman might be a good person...she might be someone, that if she had contacted only your organization, you might want to put the time and energy into meeting. She isn't Mother Teresa, but she's nice and might be a good fit.

But when all these other groups come into the equation, there's a BIG chance she might go elsewhere, because obviously she isn't too clear on what kind of group she wants, she doesn't totally love YOUR group. Since she's just "good and nice", it may not be worth it to go through all the trouble - if she was super and amazing and loved your group, it might be. But with all these other groups in the mix, it might not be worth fighting for her.

So I think GC could have a negative impact on someone's AI process.

Thank you.

And to those who are now going to say that this doesn't happen, IT DOES. My effort to assist has dropped dramatically when I have found out that a woman is looking at other groups.