I just wish everyone realized that. But to read the back and forth here you get the impression that everyone thinks their side is pure as the driven snow and that the other side is lower than whale $hit -- and you can't get much lower than that.

On loyalty oaths:

Maybe it's just my age and the fact that I've probably seen more political unrest and anti-administration demonstrations in my lifetime -- but this loyalty oath thing really bothers me. Isn't a democracy supposed to be where you're loyal to a country and its ideals and not any individual?

Our system is built around the tenants of a "loyal opposition." We pledge to "one nation," not one man -- or one party.

What does this "oath" mean. If you sign it and then don't vote Republican, do the "loyalty oath" police come and take away your driver's license?

Or do you all have to dress alike and march in lock-step to the polls?

I've taken a number of oaths in my lifetime -- to my country, my fraternity, my wife and others -- but never to a body politic.

The idea of this seems insidious to me.

But that's just one man's opinion.

Obviously it's not a legally binding contract. There are other things that should be bothering you, like the situation in Sudan and Arab terrorists. I for one will be worrying about the fact that I forgot to wear a belt today.

-Rudey

Obviously. So why do it? Why ask for it? Is it an ego thing for the candidates?

Actually, now that I think of it, when you sign something doesn't it become a contract? Doesn't your signature indicate that you're agreeing to do something? You can get in trouble over verbal contracts when you sign nothing! What is the working of this thing? Lawyers, help out here. Does the fact that you assume it's not binding make it so?

By the way, I have enough worries without anyone telling me what they should be.

OK. You go preach the word on how these contracts upset you because you're obviously in a bad mood again and going to take it out one whatever issue and person you find.

-Rudey

In order to get a ticket, it seems you have to provide information: Name, DL#, Address, Phone #. I can see why some balk at this. However, as I said before, we're at wartime and for a sitting President of the US, I think these are acceptable security measures.

As for the oath, I don't really see the problem. It's not your right to see this guy speak. It's your privilige for him to speak in front of you. If you don't want to do what he asks, then you can watch him on c-span.

Don't you know, DA? The goose-step is SOOOO good for your glues! ;)

The "loyalty" oath kinda skeeves me out, too. But, I grew up in a household where we were taught not to say the Pledge of Allegiance if we didn't 100% agree with what it meant.

Actually, under the circumstances, I think it's his privilige to speak in front of me. He's trying to get my vote -- not the other way around. To me, politicians aren't celebrities -- they're people who want me (and several million other Americans) to "hire" them.

It occurs to me that if there wasn't a C-Span, or the blanket coverage that the media give to elections, there would be no thought of tickets and oaths. The candidates would want everyone to come to their speeches -- particularly those who aren't inclined to vote for them.

As for the name, SSN, date and place of birth, etc. -- having televised every president since Nixon -- with the exception of the sitting president -- several foreign heads of state and the Pope, the Secret Service already knows everything it needs to know about me. I have no problem with that kind of security information -- it's necessary. Heck, it makes it safer for the crowd as well.

Is there an actual reproduction/scan of this oath around anywhere? I'm sure someone was crafty enough to keep one.

I looked for awhile. All I could come up with were the first and last lines. Something like "I swear to support Pres. Bush" and at the end, something like "I acknowledge that my name may be used in a statement saying that I support Pres. Bush."

Yeah, I'd really like to see what it says.

http://www.protestzone.com/images/loyaltyoath.jpg

That's the only one I've been able to find...I didn't post the pic since it'd be all bandwith-theivy.

http://www.protestzone.com/images/RepLoyalWeb.pdf

Oooh, here's another one! Wonder if (former Florida Secretary of State) Katherine Harris signed an agreement like this?

irony is that nobody really knows who you vote for unless you tell them. someone could sign an oath for either side, but then turn around and vote for the opposition. so what can they do to you if you don't abide by the oath? how would they find out?

shelley j
sigma k

Memo

RE: loyalty oaths

Who cares??!

-Rudey

Hey, if you're like the former Florida Secretary of State, you could allow people to vote for whoever they want and then be selective about which votes you actually count.