well, it's great that you guys learn it. nice try at changing the subject. back to the point....

Re: Re: Bottom Line
 

well shoot, there you have it. damn, this site doesn't have a furley face.

Re: Re: Bottom Line
 

ask the unknown sigma team...they're pretty good and well known.

One more post from me tonight...
 

....and that's it, cause ya'll makin' me ti'id (read: tired)

Good points, CT4. Please allow me to clarify a previous point I made in one of my posts.

When I said that NPHC orgs should abolish stepping and other aspects of its culture, I didn't mean for it to be done permanently; just long enough for outsiders to see, witness, and really truly appreciate the talents and gifts that NPHC folk bring to the table.
Frankly, I think that is the reason why non-NPHC orgs and others only know NPHC orgs for stepping; because it's high degree of flair tends to overshadow the true aims, principles, and purposes of these orgs.

FOR THE RECORD....

My true beef with the NPHC lies in the fact that too many of the current generation of members (Generation X and Y) simply do not know what it means to be HUMBLE, and to proactively act with true discerning WISDOM!

Thank you for reading.

I'm sorry, one more post, just one more...
 

Allow me to answer that question with a question:

Why should NIC/NPC orgs care about the history of NPHC organizations to understand, appreciate, and practice stepping? This is the crux of this whole debate and IMHO VERY relevant.

Re: I'm sorry, one more post, just one more...
 

no, this is extremely irrelevant. whether or not MY history and intake process includes phi beta kappa is completely pointless in regards to non-bglo's stepping. i could care less if these non-pan organizations learn the history behind stepping because it's not ingrained in them so they will never truly appreciate it. if people want to copy it, that's fine. doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

Re: Re: Bottom Line
 

i've never done that. i could care less. they're the one who come on a greek website telling us what they did during their process.

Whoa, this has blown up since this afternoon.

Like LI84?, I owe no explanation of my pledge process to anyone but those who made me and deemed me worthy of the letters. But I will say this GP, in America it is impossible to NOT be aware of numerous elements of white culture, be that fraternal existence or whatever else. Yeah, I could expound on Phi Beta Kappa but why?

Alpha's "jewels" (founders) sought and were denied inclusion in the fraternities of their day at Cornell, so they looked inside and took it to another level -- a higher level that surpassed all they saw. They started something that is well and ably advanced by ALL members of the D9 in communities throughout this nation and internationally, on a daily basis.

While I do support what we and the Sigmas did at Purdue, I do understand and give strong consideration to SKEEphistAKAte's point.

RainMan, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but beyond cursory observation, how can you discuss the mental processes inherent in what any of the D9s do? You say: "the current generation of members (Generation X and Y) simply do not know what it means to be HUMBLE, and to proactively act with true discerning WISDOM!" How exactly do you know this? All you know is what you see, right? I'm guessing there were say, 200 AfAm men arrested today across the U.S. Does that mean that tomorrow someone should watch you extra carefully?

I think everybody needs to step back from challenging anyone else's "blackness" or whether they served Black people at the expense of Christian people (as if the groups are mutually exclusive).

We ALL know why we do what we do and we ALL know that nobody in THESE United States does it betta. believe that.

peace to everybody on GC and I'm done with this one.

The only reason Geeky Penguin brought up Phi Beta Kappa was (I assume, since I was thinking the same thing) to point out the irony of you saying "WGLOs stole our stepping", when your founders "stole" a great deal of their ritual and org structure from existing (W)GLOs, who in turn "stole" them from earlier GLOs and so on all the way back to Phi Beta Kappa. And PBK "stole" it from the Masons, who "stole" it from the renaissance era societies in Europe, etc., etc.

Irony. Hypocrisy. Whatever you want to call it. I think you knew exactly what she was saying in the first place, but I guess it's easier for you to deflect the question with rhetoric than it is to give her an honest answer to her very reasonable question.

wptw

you're kidding right? no, really none of us knew what she was talking about and either way it really didn't have anything to do with the thread. this thread is based on WGLO's viewing BGLOs as stepping organizations only. did you even bother to read the rest of it? using your logic, WGLOs are going to eventually start stepping on their own and incorporating it into their history and culture because you know....we all originated from somewhere. and if you read anything, you would know that it was already answered. no, we don't care to know the history phi beta kappa. comprende'?

Funny how you understood exactly what I meant...

I did read the whole thread. It was very interesting.

No one was trying to educate you about Phi Beta Kappa. Heaven forbid! It's just funny that groups who basically copied the entire structure of existing GLOs (and then copied from each other until there were 9 of similar character) are now up in arms about what's "theirs", and all worried about being copied.

I guess the irony is lost on you. Oh well.

wptw

i highly doubt that purpose of the founding of any of the BGLO's was to imitate and copy and more to have something on their own. the format of GLO's might be similar, but the purpose is completely different. i.e. we're not social organizations. we are gear torwards service. giving back to the community. the MAJOR difference between this and your point is that what the WGLOs are doing is imitation, copying, stealing....and in no way making it unique or distinctive. until i see theta chi or chi omega or whoever win a real stepshow, my opinion on this matter will not be swayed.

OK. Fair enough.

I understand that the D9 are different, and were founded for different purposes. In my opinion, they did a smart thing in the beginning by "borrowing" structural elements from existing GLOs that they found useful or appealing (officer structure, ritual structure, etc.) and adapting it to their unique needs and adding their own unique elements. I'm not saying it was a bad thing, or that they copped out somehow. It's just hard for me to distinguish between that situation and this situation where NIC/NPC groups are borrowing elements they find useful or appealing.

But some of you obviously DO think it's somehow different, so OK. Fine.

wptw

Zeta Tau Alpha at Valdosta State in Georgia have won many state step shows being the on WGLO in the stepshow. They have always got along with and worked with the BGLO's on campus and are invited now to particpate at campus stepshow events.