Yes but I don't think you're separating the issues enough. Neighborhoods change. A neighborhood with mansions becomes decrepit with poor people, drug users, and prostitutes. 20 years later that neighborhood has an influx of yuppies who fix it up and drive up prices. It would never have attracted poor people in the first place if there wasn't a demand for those people and attractive prices.

-Rudey
--You could always move to somewhere more "blue-blooded" where there aren't these cycles though.

I realize that you're playing devil's advocate here, Rudey. You make some good points. However, in the specific case of my neighborhood, it is illegal aliens who are causing the problems. You can do something about drug users and prostitutes in a neighborhood by calling the cops and putting together a neighborhood watch program. However, it's impossible to get anything done about the illegal aliens in my area because the government doesn't care. Try to get someone in to check on an illegal immigration complaint -- it doesn't happen. No one has the time to come and address the issue.

As for the comment about moving somewhere more "blue-blooded"... My husband and I work hard to afford our home. We can't move to a more upscale area because the cost of living is too high. And even if we could, why should we have to move out of our neighborhood because of illegal immigrants?? They should be the ones to move -- but no one is making them. That is my gripe.

No I don't think you can change a neighborhood like you think. There is only one good study on crime and that links neighborhood activism as the only way to counter it. It is neighbors that keep a park clean and green. It is neighbors that call parents to make kids stop hanging out late at night and causing trouble.

Now here are some things you don't mention. More than likely if your state didn't have even illegal immigrants the economy would start to flop. Have you ever wondered why some coastal states like NYC prosper?

You are trying to kill 2 birds with one stone. What you don't understand is that won't get you too far. If it were me and I cared about the things you did, I would a) work on my neighborhood by taking care of it with otehrs and calling the cops if a crime is committed and b) work to call the INS or whatever to get rid of the illegals.

-Rudey
--I'm not playing devil's advocate, just breaking it into 2 different public policy issues.

You say call the INS.

Did that, got nowhere.


You say work on the neighborhood.

We do that. We have an association that does all sorts of things for the neighborhood: clean-up days, garage sales, get-to-know-you meetings. Guess who never shows up? You can't go into someone else's yard and clean up their mess for them.


You say call the cops when crimes are committed.

We do. For example, gang grafitti started showing up on street signs in the neighborhood recently, so we contacted the local police to find out what we should do. Afterwards, we sent around leaflets to all the homes so that they could read the tips given by the police.

We have done everything that we know to do in order to keep our neighborhood going in a positive direction. But when there are more "For Rent" signs up than "For Sale" signs, then you know that it's a losing battle right now.

Where are my rose colored glasses?

So, X% of Americans are out of work and CAN'T find jobs.

But, this bill is to support undocumented workers who work in jobs that American's WON'T take.

Huh?

Sadly, that's the ugly truth. Some people may NOW be desperate enough to take them, though (which could be one of the other reasons why this is an issue now :rolleyes: ).

Thank God, I finally got through this whole thread!:o

At some point in time, we were all aliens from other places. A Given.

Over the years, many year things have changed!

Most USA Citizens are taught by rules and regualtions place by our Duely Elected Morons who preport to take care of us that the wages will go up. There will be more welfare for the poor down trodened people who wont get off of their asses and work because is is easier to get welfare and foodstamps.

So, let us use the Lowly illegal aliens who sneak across the border for the Peon jobs of picking lettuce and grapes or what ever job that the Normal Lazy Ass American wont do! Lets give them the same staus as Tax paying Americans, free schools, health care, benefits that poor Americans cannot afford to get because they are to damn lazy to do the job.

Well, because of all of this, the price of everything keeps going up because of the wage increase by the unions who are looking out for their workers. Da, Talk about a catch 22!
:mad:

I love you Tom:) :)

Ok, no more because like I said, I'm too biased and now you know to which side.

Thank You AFROG:)

Before I was so rudley interupted by PMs for Drama and having typoed to may words, I go on!

Hell, lost my train of thought!:(

If one remembers Kuwait when Sadammit Huassain invaded them and we had the Gulf War, the Kuwaities had nothing but Oil Money! Everything was Hired out to Aliens to That Country!:eek:

Now, how many rich Mothers/Brothers/Sisters do you have in Your Organizations who dont have to work for the privilage of being a member of Your Said Organization! Not me!:(

Enough of this I am a Mexican or a Cubano or etal, who will work kfor pitence before I turn to drugs or stealing!

Depend on our duly elected morons to take care of us, yep they will take care of them selves first on our backs!:mad:

And on another note...out of one side of my mouth I'll say let's stop sending our jobs overseas while out the other side I'll say let's give all the jobs to the illegal immigrants in the country....

DA, when was the last time you saw anything but Mexicans working on a roofing crew? Ever seen a home construction company in Texas? The fact is that many US citizens are content to live off what the system pays them for doing nothing. These workers from south of the border are interested in working no matter what it pays.

The problem I have is that many pay no taxes. Also, the employers should be required to provide healthcare. These folks have killed many hospitals near the border.

You people have such a bad grasp of economics. There is a reason why so many are here illegally and most of it has to do with a demand for cheap labor that cannot be performed outside of the country. You want to know how to stop them from coming in? Start providing them with healthcare, unions, higher wages, and everything else that would come as a right of being a US citizen. Then see how long employers will want to keep them.

-Rudey

No question. And I still can't find the rose colored glasses.

The joke going around when our new home was being built was that someone started a rumor that INS was on the way, and every home in the complex lost a day of work.

Since I visited the site pretty much daily, I can tell you that, with the exception of plumbers and electricians, there wasn't much English being spoken.

People act as if these jobs should be given to US citizens and they don't understand the control over who gets the jobs is with the employers - the ones who want to pay you pennies on the dollar, be able to cut you with no notice, give you zero benefits. You don't see our poor leaving the country for Mexico to work the fields. Because our poor have become accustomed to the social benefits this country provides.

-Rudey

Yeah, I agreed with you in the post before your last. Still, in a perfect world...

Which this one will never be, of course.