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-   -   AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=247126)

joliebelle 07-02-2020 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2476605)
I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.
Both things need to happen. On certain campuses, BIPOC are not going through NPC recruitment, because they know they don't have a chance at getting a bid. These women can go through recruitment all day long, but when they are viewed differently during MS because of their race then they have no chance. A woman can be given a bid to a chapter, but then later resign her membership because of the unchecked microaggressions and out right racism in a chapter. The approach has to be two pronged--we (general NPC here) need to teach our members how to be anti-racist AND how to recognize the need for change with certain practices on their campuses.

carnation 07-02-2020 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta (Post 2476603)
Did this petition include mention of the legacy policy?

This. And was the general membership polled or did you cave to the demands of petition signers who might not have even been AOIIs?

carnation 07-02-2020 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersistentDST (Post 2476593)
In my experience, I’ve seen legacies who have been denied for various reasons. It happened to friends of mine in both undergrad and Alumnae. I happen to know a couple of legacies who waited years before getting an opportunity, including two of my line sisters and a few ladies I helped to bring in my Alumnae chapter recently.

My organization does actually have limitations on how many can be brought in. At large schools, HBCU’s, and some Alumnae chapters, where 100’s of interests apply, a legacy can very well be denied because there simply are not enough spots. Unfortunately, this happened to my cousin a couple of years ago. She had a great resume, but the competition was massive. For some chapters, picking all the eligible legacies would eliminate any other qualified women.

It’s not that it’s something that doesn’t matter, but legacies have to research, get to know members in their chapter of interest, support programming, serve their communities and carry themselves well on campus or in the community, just like all other interests. My best friend didn’t tell anyone she was a legacy and the chapter was surprised when her mother showed up at initiation to pin her. Either way she was Delta material and that’ll always shine through! Membership is a privilege extended to each Soror on their merits.
If a woman has had a certain NPHC group on her mind for years and she's done the required things but still doesn't get in, what happens to her? Is she shunned by other sororities because she showed her preference for one? Will she always have to be independent?

carnation 07-02-2020 11:31 AM
I know many AOIIs, some whom I gave birth to, who knew nothing of this new policy until it was a done deal. These are women who stay in touch with the organization. Some have legacies yet to go to college. One is a chapter advisor.

Can we say "disenfranchised"?

One way to lose supporters quickly is to not involved all stakeholders.

carnation 07-02-2020 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Rose (Post 2476617)
Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.
You are kidding me. None of them think they will be listened to. And if AOII is going to put this divisive policy out there, they should expect that non-members will comment, just like they did against others. That's what people do on this site. I expect that they would jump on my sorority if they were to pull the same crap.

And not unexpectedly, I just now got a Facebook message from an AOII who asked me, 'Did you know that AOII dropped their legacy policy? I just now found out." I'm sure she feels like no one will listen to her now if no one contacted her in the first place.

SWTXBelle 07-02-2020 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Rose (Post 2476617)
Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.
Given the hostile treatment I've seen given to members of organizations who have disagreed with policy changes they had no "head's up" nor were they consulted about, I totally understand if they don't feel like their concerns are considered valid and they don't want to subject themselves to abuse. If their opinion wasn't taken into consideration before implementing the policy, why would it matter afterwards? Is there any chance the policy would be rescinded?

What one NPC group does may influence what others do, especially if it reaches the level of being considered for a Unanimous Agreement. As to speculating on collective will, refusal to enumerate how members were included can be expected to be interpreted as they were not. If AOII members tell us they were not consulted, they will be taken at their word. "Oooooo it's a secret" is fine and dandy, but optics matter.


* ETA - Note that I don't expect to know what is in the document - the issue is who was consulted.

If Gamma Phi were to do the same, I'd expect my panhellenic sisters to take notice, too.

Cheerio 07-02-2020 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Rose (Post 2476617)
Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.
Any "respectful discussion" ought to have occurred BEFORE such a measure was finalized. And as others have mentioned, optics matter.

Iota_JWH 07-02-2020 01:43 PM
I am quite certain another NPC group had a legacy policy of essentially "A legacy will be offered a bid." This policy was in effect a few decades ago, not that is was adhered to then. I recall it only came into play when an Alumna made an angry phone call when her legacy was not invited back to a rush party. I wonder what happened when that policy was changed.

Titchou 07-02-2020 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheerio (Post 2476624)
Any "respectful discussion" ought to have occurred BEFORE such a measure was finalized. And as others have mentioned, optics matter.
Amen and Amen

SWTXBelle 07-02-2020 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota_JWH (Post 2476626)
I am quite certain another NPC group had a legacy policy of essentially "A legacy will be offered a bid." This policy was in effect a few decades ago, not that is was adhered to then. I recall it only came into play when an Alumna made an angry phone call when her legacy was not invited back to a rush party. I wonder what happened when that policy was changed.
I don't know if any sororities had an actual written policy, but I know the expectation of many alumnae, in the past and up to today, is that every legacy will be given a bid. A great deal of stress and anger has been the result of that de facto, or simply misunderstood, policy. Whatever the policy, it is important that alumnae be aware of it and its limitations.

FSUZeta 07-02-2020 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2476605)
I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.
Thank you. I have often said that NPC needs to compile these numbers. Then we can have reliable information that we can use to affect change(if necessary) without emotional knee jerk reactions.

SWTXBelle 07-02-2020 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta (Post 2476631)
Thank you. I have often said that NPC needs to compile these numbers. Then we can have reliable information that we can use to affect change(if necessary) without emotional knee jerk reactions.
Or "feel good" actions that do nothing to actually address the issues.

PersistentDST 07-02-2020 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2476610)
If a woman has had a certain NPHC group on her mind for years and she's done the required things but still doesn't get in, what happens to her? Is she shunned by other sororities because she showed her preference for one? Will she always have to be independent?
I can speak to that because I was denied before I made it. If you truly love that organization, you will try again when the opportunity presents itself. Many ladies don’t get in the first time they apply. I didn’t just want to be Greek, I wanted to be a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

Ladies can choose to pursue other organizations as they like. I know plenty of ladies who had joined other sororities after being denied from one. It’s not a good look, but it’s their choice. They may be a topic of conversation, some Sorors don’t take kindly to that.

carnation 07-02-2020 04:28 PM
How many times can they try before it looks bad and they finally give up? It seems like people would be talking about them after a few tries.

PersistentDST 07-02-2020 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2476645)
How many times can they try before it looks bad and they finally give up? It seems like people would be talking about them after a few tries.
As many times as they want. I know many people who have tired multiple times and it doesn’t look “bad” to us, it shows they won’t give up. There are many reasons why a woman can be denied, not just because they didn’t get the votes. We have a rigorous application process with specific requirements. “Persistent” is a part of my line name. I earned it because I didn’t give up on my dream. Delta is a lifetime commitment rather you got in the first try as an undergrad or the 4th try as an alumnae member. Some of the most rewarding experiences for me are watching women who had to wait (because of life reasons or being denied previously) finally be initiated. There is absolutely nothing like it. :)


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