Maybe I should clarify....

I have no problem with black folks who join WGLO's. If that is where you fit, then that is where you fit and more power to you.

My beef was with posters on the board who say they have NO black friends at all. That is really sad, and they are missing out.

Oh no lovelyivy, I agree with what u are saying, I do believe if people are missing out, if they don't have black friends then they are missing out. But I think a lot of people think that if you are black , then u are obvioulsy granted membership in BGLO's and thats truly just not how it works.
Greek love to one and all
DGPhoney

LOL.

I agree with you, that is highly untrue! And anyone who thinks it is is either:

a. deluded

-or-

b. knows the WRONG chapter, one that is not about business

Well, I guess I do have a problem then. I have maybe 2 black female friends, but that's all. I just don't need the aggravation that comes along with the friendships. The aggravation I am referring to is havingto EXPLAIN my choices! I obviously have to pass a test of "blackness" with them and I know I'm going to fail to meet their criteria, so why even try?? I like my choices, I am comfortable with them, why change because it bothers other blacks?? And why does it bother them so much? I am not owned by anyone, I can do what I want... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

What test? Stereotypes of what it means to be black have little if anything to do with reality, and while you WILL find some black folk on "soul patrol" I think there are plenty who will accept you for yourself, with no conditions as to how you behave.

Are you sure that you are not doing it to yourself? Are people really checking to see if you "fit"? Or are you merely stereotyping the first? I know more than a couple of people (black, white, gay, whatever) who were afraid to approach me because they thought I would judge them, when really I am the last one to do so!

So I just think you need to re-examine your own perceptions before you make accusations of things you might be guilty of yourself....

I know I stereotype, doesn't mean it's right, but don't we all? Regardless, let's get back to my situation: Time and time again, I have failed to "qualify" as a black enough from high school on thru college. When I tried to do what I was "supposed to": join the African Cultural clubs, Caribbean Cultural groups, etc, I did not feel accepted, but I also didn't like them. So, I moved on to drama, my sorority, and other clubs that had nothing to do with race and I made more friends there and felt more accepted and appreciated there...So, now, I just don't even bother! And the beautiful thing is is that I don't HAVE to! I learned my lesson. When you are burned over and over, you learn to not put yourself in that fire again. It's a waste of both my time and theirs, usually. The two black women I am friends with have been persecuted the same way. For example, we are both chastized for dating outside of our race, both of us have been asked "Why you talk so white?" while the person's nose is scrunched up and eyes rolling, and both of us have found that WE DON'T NEED TO PLEASE ANYONE BUT OURSELVES! I am tired of having to justify WHY I don't hang out with any other blacks, I just hang out with people who are like me: we love to laugh, love to have good conversation over wonderful meals, and travel. And I find that the ones who ACCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM AND WHAT I AM have NOT been black!! Why does it BOTHER other black people SO much if I do not to associate with them? I want THAT answered...

Honestly, it doesn't generally bother me. When I saw the situation cited so many times in this thread I wanted to respond, but in my day to day activities, I don't think about it.

I think it's sad, because you are ultimately the one that misses out, but does it make me angry? No. Like I said before, I don't think it makes you a bad person, just misguided.

It seems also like a lot of the issues you have are mixed up. You are confusing class issues with race issues. The behavior you are citing like asking why you "talk so white" is more about class than race (I know some poor white folk that could not speak properly if their lives depended on it). Black people who are not middle class might ask that question, but most middle class black people speak english quite properly. MOST blacks are middle class.

So once again, it comes back to perception. You don't really want to widen your circle. That is ultimately what keeps you from associating yourself with black people, the fact that you don't want to- not necessarily how they treat you. Like I said before, I think that is sad. I wonder how much you honestly like yourself when you refuse to associate with the community you come from(and that is not meant as an insult, but as a true question). But also like I said before, if it makes you happy then do your thing.

Hey, just wanted to let everyone know, so that it doesn't get confrontational, that it is all love! I have respect for all women, black or white, and just wanted to discuss. I a not trying to hate on anybody!

http://www.plaudersmilies.de/remybussi.gif

It bothers me because it makes me wonder if that person is ashamed of their heritage or feels that they are "too good" for their own people. I am not saying this is the case for you. I'm merely telling you want I think/feel.

*Opening the door to put all my business out on the street* I know that when I was seeking sisterhood, I wanted to be somewhere where I felt at home. I looked into the NPHC sororities and NPC sororities on my campus. I even FORMALLY RUSHED. However, in the end I chose an LGLO because as a Latina and an African American, I felt the most at home with my organization. I made the right choice for me, and it feels GREAT!

I often feel that these individuals are not being true to themselves. I have never understood how is it possible to disassociate yourself from people of your own race. That just boggles my mind.

I have been asked by many black people why I never "joined" a BGLO, especially with my organization being so young. I must admit, sometimes that bothers me. But you know what? Instead of focusing I why I didn't "join" a BGLO, I let them know why my organization is the best place for me to be. That always works and often leads to some really great conversations. Maybe you can try that.

I find that most people ask purely out of curiousity and not out of malice. I have never felt like I was to proving my "blackness" to anyone. Maybe that in and of itself is where the real issue lies.

------------------
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity http://www.sigmalambdaupsilon.org

As usual, I have to say that I can see both Sigmagrrl and Lovelyivy84 points. While I believe that having all types of friends (regardless of race, creed, color, or sexual orientaion) is vital, it's also very hard to make those friends, and keep those friends if you make a decision that does not sit well with them.

Sometimes, Black people can be really hard on one another. I know, I've been ostracized myself! But that doesn't mean I give up on all Black people, stereotype them and walk away. It's just not always easy to please the people around you - especially when they feel they have the right to say something!

Personally I think you should keep an open mind and a welcome hand to everyone. If you attempt to be friends with some of the Black people on your campus and they are unkind to you, shrug and count it as their loss. Because it is! But if someone approaches you and wants to be your friend, got for it! Don't walk away because you've been hurt before. Give it a try.

Wow, this conversation has gotten out of control! I hate that conversations like this always become a black/white issue. I am a hispanic female in a "white" sorority and I don't see what the big deal is, but I guess that's just me.

Actually, I am enjoying this conversation because I always just get ostracized, and no one explains their side or reasoning. I appreciate hearing all of the viewpoints. I guess I just have no desire to even try anymore. I like the way things are for me and have no intention of really altering that....AT THIS TIME! Who knows? Maybe in the future, somewhere down the line, I will encounter someone who will help me see things in a more positive light, and I will of course keep an open heart, as I always do. But right now, my open mind has a SERIOUS toll booth!!LOL
Thanks for the intelligent conversation!

I am also a Hispanic in a "white NPC Sorority" I've never gotten any flak for that since I go to school in Miami. Many NPC groups here are minority dominated or very mixed. Of course, I am sure my organization discriminated in the past, however we've all made progress.

Mari, I don't think that your situation is akin to what we were discussing.

If a sorority's membership nationally is white, but your chapter is not really white, then I don't think you can call it a WGLO. Minorities who join have sisters of a similar ethnic background, who can understand any cultural struggles that they might have. The situation is different...

I think the feeling that you do not associate with Black people out of some level of anger and a rejection of Black people is why they are bothered. You post reflects some hostility over the rejection you felt and the expectation that you should conform to their ideal image of you. I suspect that may come across in person as well. No one should strive to please others. Yhe only opinion that should matter is your own. A true friend does not have to ahve all the smae likes and dislikes you do. I have friends who do ot listen to the same type of music I do at all. That has nothing to do withthe bond between us and the knowledge that we can always rely on one another. Also, you do not have to approve of all of your friends choices. I have opinions about dating men of oter races that differs form one of my closest friends. She is grown nd can date whomever she wants. I don't ahvea a say but our friendship is bigger than her current boyfriend.

I know what it is like to be ostracised, told you look white, talk white. It is always difficult when you find people constantly questioning your identity and trying to define you for you. I am an EXTREMELY light skinned Black woman (can we say could pas for White back in the day if not for certain facial features and my hair texture.) I am not biracial. (outside of a historical context- many African-Amiercans who are decendants of enslaved people are mixed racially) But because of my appearance, people frequently would try to challenge my Blackness growing up. I was educated in a private school from K-12th that was predominantly White. Because I was surrounded by White kids of course I made White friends. I also had Black friends from the few in the school and from activities outside of my school. My parents made sure my social world was diverse so that I had friends of all races. Still, I socialized primarily with White kids growing up.

Sigmagirl, what stands out to me in your post is the fact that you have some anger towards those who have burned you in the past. What I hope for you is that you learn to get past that and open yourself up to friendship opportunities that may otherwise pass you by without you knowing it. You sound like yoor expereinces have caused you to be closed off in that way. (of course, that is reading a post and could be way off base, so forgive me if it is wrong) I think there is a benefit to all people to have relationships with diverse groups of friends. Although I do not know you and cannot say what the real effect any of this will or won't have on you may be, there often is a more deep seeded issue when some one simply does not associate with people of their own race. For some, it reflects an internalization of steroetypes about their own people, for others it is a feeling of rejection turned to anger based on past experience.

If I could know, what I would want to know from you is what relevance do you beleive being a Black person holds in your life? Is it irrelevant to your life? Is it an integral deifning part of who you are or something more happenstance about you? I am NOT asking you to answer me. I just suspect that the way that people answer these questions has a lot to do with their feelings on this topic. For me, being a Black person is a central part of my identity. It is significant to me and about me. I once had someone say to me- as a compliment- "I could almost forget you were Black." I was angry and outraged that they thought that was a compliment. I mean, that is like saying I could almost forget you were a woman as though it was something to be overcome or overlooked and that I should be striving to be something other than Black. If you really accpet me for me you would be able to accept me without forgetting pieces of me.

Anyway, my belief is that there is more to a person's identity than jsut their race but there is a signifcance to that racial identity from a cultural and historical standpoint. This should not dictate what orgs you join. For me, there was no other choice I was interested in than a BGLO (and that HAD to be DST! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif) but to each her own. I just would hope that the choice is not a reflection of anger, disappointment or blanket dislike for members of one's own race.

[This message has been edited by Kimmie1913 (edited May 02, 2001).]