posted by alpha frog

You need to learn how to spell honey and stop dumping on us for having a discussion about something that WE care about. Sorry, but your errors are irking me.

I'm not a great speller. Fine. Whatever. I am not "dumping" on your converstation. Are you saying I'm not allowed to care about this issue? Why? Because I'm not black, or because I don't share in the popular opinion on this thread??

If you're saying I should not voice my opinion because my opinion is in the MINORITY on this thread - well, that's pretty hypocritical, isn't it?

What in the worls makes you think that just because we have a discussion about the TRUTH of racism, its past and present forms and effect, that we are not out here doing our thing? I know I have a wonderful life and can and will do anything in life that I choose to do, but I also recognize that my parents and ancestors went through HELL to make it possible for me to feel this way. That is the truth, sir, and just because I talk about it doesn't make me any less capable or willing to do what I have to do. We can talk all day long about this topic if we want to and that in no way reflects our individual levels of desire to live life to the fullest. YOU and others need to stop prejudging people who DO find it necessary to continue to address problems that continue to plague this country and the world. You do YOU, let me do me.

OH Lord. ...and with that, I'm out.

There is nothing wrong with it. I had to self-educate because my parents were kind of on this colorblind tip. So I resolved that if I ever had a child, he or she would be educated properly when the time has come.

No, I'm saying you don't come in here where you have NO frame of reference and insult people who DO have that frame of reference and are having a conversation among others with that frame of reference. You are NOT in the position to tell me or anyone else that we need to get over anything since you have NOT idea how it feels to be us in this country living under circumstances dictated by the entire history of this, OUR homeland. You will NEVER understand and you need to get that through YOUR head and shut that mouth! You also will not call yourself confronting me for pointing that out to you and adding words to what I said to you. I make my points as clearly as I need to and if you don't like what I have to say in MY forum, there is the exit sign and I suggest you follow it.

Thank you Phasad, you said it: "frame of reference".

There have been numerous threads on GC lately dealing with race and they have gotten nowhere but deleted/locked/moved etc. because people like Alpha Frog come in and say things they have no BUSINESS saying.

Do you know what it's like to be black? Do you know what it feels like to have a strong sense of inferiority and not really know it until you are in the work force/married, etc. and the shit hits you in the face like a ton of bricks?

I can give you countless examples throughout my 42 years of living.

:rolleyes:

Re: COMPARISON
 

Although you & I are 'Caribbean' I am not Jamaican and you are not Bahamian. So I can't assume that 'you know what I'm talkin about' b/c we are from island nations. The Bahamas has been blessed in that we do not & did not suffer with the same level of racial oppression as African-Americans & Caribbean nations. So although we seem to be so much alike I don't know what it's like to grow up & live in Jamaica & you likewise with me in the Bahamas.

I am Black but where & when I grew up has a WHOLE lot to do with my views on race & race relations. Also remember that geographically the Bahama Islands are not situated in the actual Caribbean Sea & thus not really 'close' to Caribbean islands. So our cultures have more differences than similarities than say those island nations who were able to interact with each other.

I a nut shell I'm trying to say that being Black doesn't automatically mean that I know how hard it is to be Black etc. That's why earlier I didn't want to talk about stuff I know nothing about. I will never know what it's like being a Black American b/c I'm not. So I don't think I should go there. My Black experience growing up in the Bahamas has been just fine. My leaders have all been black (since our independance in 1973), our equivalent to the US vice president is a black woman, we represent about 85% of the country, so I truly can't act like I know what they're going through just b/c I'm black.

You want to do something that will not only make you (and us as a race) the "bigger person" and end some of this deep-rooted spiritual based racial animosity that a lot of folk here have been spouting off continuously?

FORGIVE THEM!

Don't seek or expect an apology from them, just humble yourself and forgive them and their ancestors for the wrongs and injustices inflicted upon you and your ancesteors. Be sincere, be humble. Just forgive them.

Once you do that, you can get rid of a lot of this spiritual trauma and move on with your life.

Otherwise, as far as your "You do YOU, let me do me." remark, I'll ask it again just for the sake of conversation:

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Question: Is your forgiveness and move on point of view based in spirituality? If so, I think I can see how you developed your point of view?

I had "oppertunities" and I TRIED TO MAKE IT FOR MYSELF time and time again!! I did all the right things. I went to the white colleges. I don't have a black sounding name (first or last). I didn't put anything "black org" related on my resume. It should have opened doors for me BUT IT DIDN'T. I am from a working class family and the first in my family to go to college. I tried to FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN! Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? Obviously not.

I'd show up for interviews and I know that they were surprised to see my face -- because I know how to sound and put that little "tilt" in my voice when they called me for the interview. When I got there I was NEVER offered the jobs that I applied and knew I was qualified for -- ALWAYS the entry level positions.

When I settled for the entry level position, I was tired of seeing the "Suzy" in the cubicle next to me get the promotion. I got tired of seeing "John" down the hall get an office with a window for a "new" position that I was well qualified for but it was never even advertised. I got tired of being asked to make copies for him (including his resume) in which I discovered he couldn't spell either!!

Try some of the posts on the latter part of page 11 and page 12, for openers, to say nothing of the subject of the thread and the content thereof on page 12(?).

It isn't much, but I hope it helps.

1. I agree
2. Probably cuz i went off on a tangent. Pls disregard that point
3. I will agree to disagree

BINGO!! Teena, you have just hit the jackpot, the grand and glorious jackpot!!

THAT is the reason why I am clashing with everyone in here, because they are looking at this from a paradigm entirely different from mine and thus, we will never see eye to eye (and why I refuse to debate certain people here).

Superior observation, Teena. Exceptional! Keep it up!! :)

Ok. Got it.


BTW.....Please dont be nice to be on this board. I dont want some of your 'hate darts' to hit me. I am doing good to dodge my own.

J/K:D

*LOL* Girl you a mess! :D

True story that happened a few years ago:

I was dating a woman from Kenya and we were having a discussion much like this one, and the more I spoke about slavery and racism in America, the angerier and more emotional I got.

My ex-Kenyan sweetie calmed me down (and mind you, that was a chore for her) by consistently telling me to stop fuming and harping about the past (At that time I was having a 90s "angry black man" flashback--I used to be a super-militant Africentric in my college days). She also said that the best thing I could do from that point forward was to move forward and work toward improving my life and the lives of others around me and associated with me.

Once I got over my big ego and humbled myself to her advice, in retrospect, it was one of the best pieces of advice she had ever given me, and I am a much better person for it and I thank her to this day for taking the time to help me out in that manner.

Just something to think about.

As much as you all like to think that I've said "Get Over It" I have never said that (and if anyone has construed what I have said that way, your reading more into it then what I'm actually saying). And I don't claim to know "how it feels to be you in this country". And I didn't realize that you were in control of the Delta forum. I have not name called or personally attacked anyone. I have presented my viewpoint and tried to do it in the most respectful way I can. If you have a problem with my viewpoint, then I can agree to disagree, but I will not be pulled into namecalling or personal attacks.

You can do all that "foregiving" that your advocating, and not turn a blind eye to the fact that these horrible things did happen, and that it has left a legacy that we continue to be penalized with. I can do all the foregiving I want, but I continue to be oppressed and victimized, it is really my fault? I can't change someone's view of me just because I want to..."I know that my ancestors were slaves and treated horribly and you didn't view them as human beings, but I'm willing to foregive you so you should just all that racism and bigotry go." I doubt that's going to go over well.

Rainman,

I'm just appalled that you are speaking on forgiveness, but yet have you done that towards the NPHC that you so passionately continues to speak out against? Don't understand what I mean? Let me break it down to you....

When you speak out against the policies/traditions/mindsets of the NPHC and its members on this board, should we then assume that you are bearing unforgiveness in your heart? If the answer is no, then why are you making this assumption about those on this board who chose to speak out concerning racial matters - that we are somehow harboring "unforgiveness" and "full of big egos" ? Obviously, speaking out against an issue and forgiveness are not related, right? Or is this only the case when you do it?

Have you forgotten that forgiveness applies to EVERYTHING in our life, not just those people or subject matters that we deem fit to deserve it.

Just something to think about while you are explaining why you are so "enlightened" and "different" from everyone else.

ETA: Teena, no one hates Rainman (well at least I don't) and shoot, and I don't necessarily agree with everything posted. But there is a way in which to get your opinion (even if its an oposing viewpoint) across in order to be heard.

^^That's a good point.

Dayum good point, Honeykiss. Dayum good point.:D

Good question, Honeykiss and I will give (hopefully) a good answer:

I am (at least IMO) not harboring unforgiveness when I speak about the NPHC because at the end of the day I am always willing and open to make peace and be friends with NPHC members. What it comes down do in my diatribes is my expression of dissention or disagreement, but I do not take opposing views personally. I do not harbor anger or resentment or let the diagreement fester in my heart. I learn from the experience and KIM.

OTOH, this discussion (and many others like it), people take it personally to the point where it degenerates into personal attacks and namecalling. There is genuine animosity between the races. I harbor no animosity whatsoever with the NPHC or its policies. I may not agree with all their mindsets and mentalities, but I don't take it personally either.

That is probably the reason why Teena named me Most Tolerant on GC. :D

Very true.


I didnt see your response to the NPHC. But I have seen the responsed on non related threads. :eek:

Good point!

See, this is something I don't understand......

When it comes to the Jewish Holocaust, we (the public) are never to forget so that it never happens again, and I agree.

BUT!!!! When it comes to slavery and racism against Blacks, its always 'Why don't y'all just get over it. That stuff happened a long time ago.'

Just an observation.......

Too True.

The Jews arent 'pulling the race card' when they remind people of the holocost.

@ sigma diva...

Ditto but it seems that alpha or rainmain has not or choose not to address this issue...

@ paradise...

LOL

Ok, if you want this addressed, I'll adress it with MY OWN thoughts:

I have never said that we should forget about slavery, and pretend that it never happened. I agree, it should be remembered, and you shouldn't "get over it". BUT - I don't think you can fairly say that "Because my Great Grandmother was a slave, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today". BUT - I also don't disagree that you MIGHT be able to say "Because I'm black, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today." It is hard to say that though, because you don't KNOW what the reason is you didn't get the job. There could have been 10 candidates for the job and 8 of them had less experiance/credentials, and 1 had more then you, but 1 is all it takes for them to get the job and not you. Hear me though: I WILL NOT say that it does not happen that people don't get jobs because of race.

Anyway, the point of my tanget is, I've never heard of a Jewish person claiming discrimination because their family was a Holocaust victim. And I know one main reason is because most people can't spot a Jewish person from a lineup (ethnic, and especially relgious) it's not to hard to pick out the African American. So I think the idea for "white" people is to remember that this could happen to us, because people who looked like us had it happen to them.

Once again, I don't think we (blacks AND whites) should "get over" slavery, but it doesn't help your case to throw it in people's faces (ie, this poem). And I think what I've wanted to say all along is the reason why I'm uncomfortable with this poem is that she's saying Columbus and Darwin, but I believe she's implying "all white people", and she's saying "in the past" and but she's implying now. I don't agree with the idea that ALL white people are the problem NOW. I'll grant you that even 50 years ago MOST white people were the problem THEN. But I believe today, that most has at least dropped to the minority of white people. I don't think discrimation doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen like it used to, and instead of taking that idea and pushing it further towards less and less and finally not at all, this little girl is making a push in the opposite direction.

When the day comes that I stop being followed by police while driving - yes, I've been 'tailed' by cops just driving down the highway, when the day comes that I stop being followed all over the store despite the fact I can pay - cash or credit- for whatever I want, when the day comes that I am not taken to the back of the restaurant to sit and eat - when these things stop happening to me, my family and my Black friends, then I will feel that the world has come to terms with all races. That day has not come, and it looks as if it will not come any time soon.

The poem is an expression of the world we live in, past and present.

While I still don't agree with your perspective, which is to be expected since we are from two different backgrounds, I do have more of an appreciation for your point of view after having read this post. It was a better conveyance of your feelings on this issue.

^^^ I feel the spirit and i'm bout to do my Holy Dance!

I just wanna one ONE thing....
 

Everyone, answer me this one question:

At the end of the day, what will all the b[el]ching, moaning, and complaining do to alleviate race relations and bring us closer together (read: What EFFECTIVE solution will all this ranting and raving about slavery, and oppresion will this bring to our present race relations)?

Re: I just wanna one ONE thing....
 

Keep it in the forefront.

Re: Re: I just wanna one ONE thing....
 

I completely 100% agree that by all means, keep it in the forefront!

However, there are ways to go about things. Casuing controversity has a tendancy to not help the cause (whatever the cause may be). It's all about Postive PR! Like the story about the little girl who did the study on bacteria in ice vs. toilet water. I think that little girl showed how intelligent she was, and it was awesome PR to show that black children can achieve as well (OR better - that girl really impressed me) as white children.

Re: Re: I just wanna one ONE thing....
 

So true. We have just devoted 13 pages to this topic.

And just as a reminder, a DISCUSSION of race is not belching, belly aching or whatever. In the NPHC threads, there are postive stories posted too. But every discussion concerning race isn't a step back or people fussing and why some of yall are refusing to see the DIFFERENCE between the two is beyond me.

I'm starting to feel like a scratched CD......

Re: Re: Re: I just wanna one ONE thing....
 

I agree. And I think (minus some namecalling, etc) we've had a good discussion. I've definatly thought of a few things differently reading some of your posts, and I hope some of you have gotten something out of my viewpoint (even if we disagree).

Try to follow me, Dippy. If you can't, I'll type slower.

I agree that we should stop COMPLAINING about slavery. I'm tired of hearing about it - mainly because it doesn't affect my family. (People seem to not understand the concept of "free blacks" or "immigration".) HOWEVER - still with me? there was this little thing called the civil rights movement. Ever hear about it? Some chick on a bus, and a preacher with a dream, and all that STUFF?

The reason why we're still "COMPLAINING" about the Holocaust is because we still have Holocaust victims walking around. And you know what? My mother - who is 46 - can tell you about how her mother worked her fingers to the bone to keep her two children in Catholic school so they would never have to be bussed. And that came AFTER the Holocaust. Chronologically speaking, it's a fairly recent event. And if you think that we're not feeling the effects of that, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you in sunny Brooklyn.

Black people have been screwed with in this country since the 1600s, and there have only been laws against that, more or less, for about 40 years. So the way I see, we've got a good...50? 60? more years to keep reminding the world about it before it becomes "COMPLAINING".

That being said, I find this kid to be annoying and comical. No wonder she's home schooled - she'd probably get dirt shoved in her mouth if she ran around school spouting that pompous STUFF. Shame on her parents for using her as a vessel to push their beliefs on the world. If this kid was white, I get the feeling there wouldn't be so much praise for "telling it like it is".

I have no respect for anything you just said. Name calling is childish, and irritating, and if you had anything valuable to say, it was completely lost, because I don't respect someone who thinks they need to belittle someone to get their point across. Have an nice day.

PS - If anyone would like to continue in an adult manor with this conversation, please jump in.

@ RattlerBrat, Welcome to GC. Profanity is not welcome. Your post was edited because of it.

And?

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Oh, wait. That was your POINT. Sorry. :)