Nice follow up.

I agree with that completely that is just another way of singling out who is pledging and who is already initiated. Just like sigma chi, we allow our pledges to wear PIKEs and that gets the word out, as for not knowing the greek alphabet ive had quesions on what is nka, or table k a, or why is pi with letters if pi is 3.145

Good point, and I do not have that answer, that has to be decided by the said GLO.


MysticCat also a good question, but if the point is raised, it will have ramifications across many Fraternal Groups and I do not think that will ever happen.


Just start naming them and see what happens!:)

Oh, out side of Social Greeks as We know them!

Our letters and our pledge pin have an open meaning, which is our motto.

Our crest and our member badge have hidden meaning that are only revealed at initiation.

Ergo the letters/crest distinction.

I don't know what the rest of y'all do. :)

Seriously, calling someone a pledge and/or not letting them wear certain items is not in any state hazing law - unless you stretch it like Rosie O'Donnell's underwear.

(That should kill this thread.)

The answer is to look to your inter/national headquarters for direction. Not to chapter tradition, but to what has actually been voted on and enacted as the standard(s) for your GLO. I'm sure every NPC and IFC group has taken hazing considerations into account, and it's always best to go straight to the source for information.

Which raises a very fundamental point that should probably be in any list of what has been learned on GC: There are very, very few statements that can be made that apply to all GLOs. Everybody does things differently -- in some orgs, the meaning of the letters is open, in others it is not. In some orgs, the colors or other symbols have secret meaning, in others they don't. In some orgs, non-initiated members can wear the letters, in others they can't. An on, and on, and on . . .

About the only statement that would apply to all fraternities and sororities is that they are all organizations with some kind of collegiate connection.

I don't know about the thread, but it killed my appetite for the rest of the night. http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/sick0001.gif

Letters maybe, but Kappa Alpha Theta came to being because our primary founder, Bettie Locke Hamliton refused to wear the Fiji badge (Her Brother's fraternity). Personally, I am glad she refused and started her own fraternity! :)

Good point. Personally, I think sometimes (and it's usually sororities guilty of this, at least as far as I've seen in my limited experience) the new members are given too much on a silver platter from the get go. They spend their entire new member period essentially being waited on hand and foot, wearing the letters even though they don't know the importance of them yet, and being allowed to do pretty much anything that actives can do with the exception of knowing ritual. It doesn't do much to prepare them for life as an initiated member, because if you're a good one, you are EARNING those letters...it's an investment of time, energy, soul, emotion, and of course money...it's NOT easy breezy like the new member period. I think that's why they tend to drop out right after it...at least for my chapter.

This is definitely not always the case, but I think sometimes knowing the importance of the letters helps members try to represent them a little better. If they aren't really important to you, why bother going to the trouble to represent them well?

I'm not claiming to be an expert on hazing laws, and I can't answer all your questions. What I DO know, however, is that we in my chapter DO NOT call new members pledges, because WE, and the other GLO's on campus [excluding the NPHC] consider it hazing. This is a rule that each NPC/IFC group on our campus follows. During my new member period, I learned from my New Member Educator that to not allow someone to wear letters is HAZING. I don't think we would do that if it wasn't actually hazing, because I know most of the sisters get a little angry about it sometimes, and feel that the laws are too strict. We just happen to have decided to follow them.

What you do is up to you.

My feelings exactly, I couldnt have said it better myself

:confused:
why are you yelling??? and I'm curious to what college you attended that you have such poor usage and spelling skills. :p Sheesh.

We don't. We're bored and feeding the troll. That's all. Don't flatter yourself.

So there, Alpha Frog! She is nor flattered!

On my campus, getting lavaliered (we call it getting Dropped) is a pretty big deal. Being lavaliered is the only way a girl can wear a fraternity's stitched letters. Sweethearts aren't allowed to unless they are dropped. I'm not sure if they can wear stuff that says "XYZ Sweetheart" or not because I've never seen a shirt like that on my campus. Two girls in my chapter were both dropped by members of the same fraternity and their boyfriends made them shirts and gave them to them along with a necklace. My big sis was dropped by a Lambda Chi and her shirt had the Lambda Chi Alpha block letters with Delta Zeta embroidered in English across them. On the back it said "Jackson's Girl" to clarify she was a girlfriend of a member. I know that my boyfriend doesn't plan on dropping me for a while but I can't wait for it to happen! Also, girls are allowed to wear screenprinted shirts as long as they are for events (Rush, Homecoming, Game Day, etc.) or if they have other GLO letters on them. I just ordered a Lambda Chi girl shirt that has their letters on the front with "Lambda Chi Cutie Pie" on the back with a piece of pie. I can't wait for them to get them in! I'm actually really glad the guys are pretty strict on wearing letters. Also, I've never heard of a Non-Greek girlfriend being dropped or allowed to wear letters. But nearly every guy I know who is greek who has a girlfiend is dating a fellow greek. I know that if I saw a random girl wearing my boyfriend's letters I would be pretty upset. Non-Greeks just don't seem to understand the meaning of it...

wow very well stated

Wow, I wish I had found this thread earlier! I totally agree that you should wait until initiation to wear your chapter's letters and I've seen many good arguments on this thread. I started a similar thread and got a lot of backlash from some women about whether it was or was not hazing but the NPC's definition is so vague that almost anything can be construed as hazing. Thanks again GCers for making some very intelligent arguments (especially Mystic and RutgersPike).

ETA: I also agree that the new member period is rather easy as far as things being handed to us, etc. But it's meant to be a celebratory time as well as a time for learning about your org. ZTA has something called Link Week the week prior to initiation and I think it's a really good idea - it's meant to solidify your lifetime commitment to ZTA and really makes you think hard about your decision to be initiated. I know there's been some discussion about lengthening the NM period and requiring grades to be in before you can be initiated - both good ideas IMO.