I'm glad Nicole won. She was consistant and looked like she learned a lot. She screwed up te ad, but she had nailed one before. She was more versatile than Nik. I think they'll both get work. I hated Nik's walk, though. I couldn't concentrate.

I agree with you here to some extent. I think Nicole was great and deserved to win. I also thought Nic was great and deserved to win.... but both of these girls I could see in a different way. Nicole rocked the runway, and I could see her doing lots of commercials and such. I could see Nik doing more serious modeling photos. Each both has great model qualities (from a non-model's point of view) but in different areas.

Many people in that thread in the other forum are making comments pretty much saying that race had something to do with it. And if it's not pretty much saying that, it's making comments about her skin color. If any of US said stuff like that, we'd be called racist. Some of the stuff that is pretty ridiculous I posted below.

Comments like that are unnecessary.

For some people, everything is a race issue. :rolleyes:

Some of yall are really naive:rolleyes:

Let's just call a spade a spade... ANTM needed to pick a white girl to keep their white viewers. Really, Nicole should have been kicked off weeks beforehand, she should have never made it to the top three.

Wake up... most times, race is an issue.

Not everything in the world is about race, but when people start to bring the race card into the picture, it suddenly becomes this huge issue.


And if we wanna pull the race card, how about the fact that some of the Law Schools applications I've received actually tell me that they will use "race" (especially people who are of Hispanic descent) as a "factor" in determing acceptance. So in reality someone with a worse gpa and LSAT score could beat me into law school because their Hispanic (or a minority). (And yes this actually was stated in a law school application, it was from a school in Texas, SMU I believe. I was actually shocked when I read it. IMPO, law school's shouldn't be using race as a determining factor in admissions or not. They should be strictly looking at gpa, lsat scores, letters of rec and personal statement).

Sorry for the mini hijack but if we are going to be arguing about the 'race card'. We should be questioning it over things such as acceptance into grad school and whatnot, not over the outcome of a tv show.


And remember that Nik had a 50/50 chance of winning. If it really was all about race Bre and Nik would have never made it to the final 3. We still would have seen Kim and Jayla. I personally believe that Nik had as good of a chance of winning as Nicole did. And not knowing the actual debate the judges had, it is hard for anyone to pinpoint exactly why they chose Nicole. I think either one would have made a great ANTM. In the end, I honestly think it came more down to personality. I say this because, Niama doesn't really have one, and Nik's really didn't shine through, not like Nicole's did at times. But again, not being a judge, it is hard to even hazard a guess, but I seriously doubt race was an issue.


Feel free to disagree with me :) Just my opinion. :)

Proof please.

That is just an example of how race does play a role in most things in our society. You're right! A Latina or Black person could get into school with a lower GPA, lower LSAT scores, etc than you have- because that is the least this society can do to make up for the fact that we attend the worst schools, live in the worst neighborhoods, and are not granted the same opportunities as most. If you disagree that many minorities are born into a disadvantaged position by the mere fact that their skin is darker, you are sadly mistaken. It doesnt surprise me that many of you feel this way... many of my white peers have the same attitude. I dont necessarily fault you because you havent been exposed to it. But to continue to remain ignorant after people who have EXPERIENCED this try to explain it to you is unacceptable.

We digress. The main discussion here is whether or not Nicole deserved to win. Black or white, I felt that Nicole was subpar. I PERSONALLY feel that producers felt compelled to choose a white winner so that they could keep a broad spectrum of viewers. I dont need evidence from UPN to know... its mad simple. We ALL know that producers manipulate the dynamics of a show to increase the amount of people watching. Look at Making of the Band, and how Denosh apparently was a "mole" placed on the show to create drama... and create drama she did. This is a similar situation, and the same situation that was going on with American Idol. In order to keep both white and black viewers, and to not have it become a "black" or "white" show, they have to switch it up. Plain and simple.

Marie..... while I don't necessarily agree or have an opinion on your post, I do have to say that I really respect it.

I think most people's anger in this thread having to do with the other thread are the racial comments made about whites... ex: the ones I quoted from the other thread. And, like you said, there are comments back and forth that are unnecessary. But the thing is why when someone of non-African American race makes a comment- and it could be the littlest thing- it's not ok? However there are ridiculous comments being made about white people and it's ok? Like I could say... and this is just an example: Wow she's really dark/light and I feel like I'd be called a racist for making that comment. Or if Diddy's band would have been 3 black girls and 2 white girls I could be like "oh Diddy blah blah fill in opposite of calling it a whitewash". Please don't respond with the argument and discussion of discrimination and such because I know that. But what bothers me is that respect goes both ways. How can "we" respect those African Americans making comments like that? And it's the same. How can those African Americans respect non-African Americans who are making comments? It's a sad double standard in the aspect of trying to respect and understand someone.


eta: Dpiece7... "This is a similar situation, and the same situation that was going on with American Idol. In order to keep both white and black viewers, and to not have it become a "black" or "white" show, they have to switch it up. Plain and simple."

I understand what you are saying now and I guess I do agree with that.

I just think this is ridiculous. It's only a race issue because some people have made it one.

Apparantly some people need to walk around with a color stick, judging the world.
When I see people, whether it's a TV program or real life, I don't go around saying:
"this person did this/got this because they are white/black/hispanic/asian/middle eastern, etc."
And I feel REALLY SORRY for people that do. Get a hobby or something, seriously!

For me many of those types of comments are not ok, but then I also don't believe in African-Americans using the N-word either. However, I will say that I doubt that someone who is making a wide generalization is looking for respect or genuine discussion anyway, so they probably aren't concerned about a double standard. I could say more about racism in the US and how offensive comments may warrant greater or lesser reactions from blacks v. whites (not making it ok, but tolerable enough to persist), but you asked me not to and I'll honor that.

Marie

The arguments in this thread make no sense.

Well, if I had to pick between Nicole and Nik, I would pick Nicole.

But if I had to pick between Bre and Nicole, I would pick Bre.

I just didn't care for Nik's look in general and didn't know why everyone kept raving over her - especially with her Mariah Carey You Can Only Photograph One Side of My Face issues.

Bre was the prettiest of the final three, but the judges weighed it on things other than looks. Once they got rid of Bre they had the two they had to pick from.

Nik did get over her one-sided photos....they didn't look as good as her side ones, but she tried to make it work. I see Nicole as a good CG model, better than Nik, but that's ONLY how I see her. Nik could have done EVERYTHING else, I think Nik would've won if any other company had been in the prize package.

Well, at least she would have in a perfect world where nobody would trip over three women of color winning in a row, but that would've been the quickest way to get the show canceled so...

I'm really curious as to why people think her audience would disappear and her show would be pulled? Who do you think her audience is...? It doesn't appear to be any one type of viewer.

Have you ever seen ratings for shows based on race? I don't have the statistics in front of me, but typically, the top 10 shows in white homes are VERY different from the top 10 shows in black homes. Most whites do not watch "black" oriented shows. Recently, a GCer posted a thread about a "new" show he "discovered": Girlfriends and how funny it was. Most of the black people here kinda chuckled because they had been watching it for years, but, many people make their viewing choices based on who they can relate to. Sure, there have been shows with a majority black cast that did well over all (Cosby), but beyond that, can you think of many? I think it is a legitimate concern. TV shows are kinda like with neighborhoods. If you have one or two black neighbors it is cool how "diverse" your neighborhood is, any more than that, people are afraid it will turn into the ghetto, no matter how nice and white flight occurs.

Marie,
Your post was dead on!!! Loved it!!

If I had to choose one, I'd choose none.

Seriously, none of these America's Next Top Model girls are really America's Next Top Model. The next Tyra, Heidi, Elle, Naomi, or Giselle is not spending her time trying out for ANTM. She probably got a contract with Ford or Elite on her own.

I'm sorry but very few (if any) of the ANTM contestants could hold their own on a catwalk next to one the real American Top Models.

(I'm prepared for the flames but think about it....most of the contestants and even some of the winners are really, really bad. Adrienne Curry vs. Alessandra Ambrosio. I choose Alessandra)

I see what you're saying but these women are at the beginning of their careers. They didn't even know how to walk. There is no way they will be as good as current supermodels. Even though the show is called "...Top Model", you really don't hear about any of them except during the show. The only reason you hear about Adrienne when ANTM isn't on is because of her personality (the show is named after him, not her).

In a perfect world, we would be color blind. But unfortunately we aren't a perfect world.


My personal opinion on the digression of graduate school, is that when 5000 people are applying for roughly 100-500 open spots, that race SHOULD NOT be a determining factor in whether a person is admitted or not. My problem is, is that it is made a factor and it shouldn't be.

Society is putting labels on people by their skin color not by who they are. Discrimination is still discrimination is still discrimination, no matter how we label it.


So now people are in an uproar because a white girl won. Like I said earlier, we weren't the judges, we don't know what they were thinking. And speaking of the judges, Tyra and Miss Jay, African American. Nigel, mixed and Twiggy white. So if we are making the assumption that it really was "all about race", shouldn't we assume that Tyra and Miss Jay would have wanted Nik to win because of her skin color? I personally don't think that. I think they are looking long term. Who could be the best model.

It seems to me that Yoanna is doing pretty good for herself (this is purely based off comments others have made about her successes). Eva is doing pretty well. Adrienne, well we know what is going on with her.

Which leaves Niama. Personally, I think the girl has the personality of a rock. I think if anyone influence these judges it was Cover Girl (their biggest sponser), saying they want someone with a personality. I don't believe any of the producers or even CG came up and said "we want a white girl". Because they could have easily done that last season.

Marie: I completely and utterly respect everything you said. I agree with some of it.


Sahara: I definately agree. These women are at the beginning of their careers. I could really see Eva doing incredibly well in the future.

What's weird is they why do they keep picking the older girls to compete? They always end up dropping them before the end.

Adrienne was like 20 when she won. I'm not sure how old Yoanna or Eva was. Niama I think was around 20 and I'm pretty sure Nicole is 18. But because of the whole reality show part of it the girls have to be at least 18. If they did younger they would have to pull an AI (American Idol) and have one of the parents living with the girl in the house. Which you know they wouldn't want to do because you might not get all the drama (unless it's a total stage mom living there and encouraging the drama. ;))

Exactly. I understand that maybe they're just starting their careers but no matter how much they try, they will still never be thought of in the same way that Heidi or Giselle are thought of.

Most models start their careers in their teens. Most of them are "5'10" (with Kate Moss being one of the rare exceptions). Most of them are very thin. Most models' careers are over by the time they're 25 so how does it make sense to have a 24 year-old contestant?

Eva was 19, and most of the clients she met on the show said that was a perfect age.

I am not sure if the actual intent is to create high fashion models -- but I also don't think the show makes it clear. They should, because there's no shame in commercial/catalog work. It pays bills.

I agree that the show sends mixed messages, but they do that because the "high fashion/edgy" shoots are more exciting than the regular old pictures you see in your JC Penney's or Macy's circular that comes in the Sunday paper. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a JC Penney's ad with the model naked and airbrushed or dressed like a lobster or posing with a spider or aligator?? It's just basic, straight up smiling for the camera. I don't think that would be as interesting, especially if they were just wearing basic JCP clothes! :p

worth repeating
 

I am truly offended and outraged when I hear people IGNORANTLY talking about some "race card". What the he!!?? Do they think racism is some kind of GAME???

BTW I agree with much of what christiangirl had to say. I also wanted to add that when their pictures were compared side-by-side and the judges commented on the comparison, Nik's were always better.
I don't think the winner was decided soley based on race (I don't think christiangirl was saying that either). I think they felt that Nicole was more versatile (despite the fact that she was a choke-artist).

I get the impression that they are trying to launch the career of someone who will be different from all the rest. That's why they allow people who are outside of the typical model caste to compete. Also, there is an interview portion of the contest. I think that's where all of the youngins get the boot. Their responses are too immature.

That's just MHO.

Originally posted by Marie
On a side note: I think its this fear of acknowledging race or being labeled a racist that prevents us from seriously being able to discuss race relations in this country. The term race card is fairly condesending and implies that one is not bring forth a legitimate issue/complaint, but rather looking to take advantage of the situation. Until we are able to handle the issues discussed with the respect and consideration that they deserve (rather than immediatedly dismissing them as just another black person looking to get ahead by leveraging their blackness) then many of these issues will never be solved. Sometimes I wish that we could just have a nation-wide study (perhaps a Lunch n Learn) of the serious effects of several hundred years of slavery, the rape of the black woman, the emasculation of the black man, the destruction of the black family, and over 100 years of continued discrimination. These things have affected the way that the African American community as well as the African American self-image and self-worth have been shaped and exist today. Then maybe we could think twice b4 we dismiss someone as 'playing the race card'.





I think the problem is that, in our society, there are people who will use their race to their advantage. So society as a whole thinks "wtf". Does that make sense? It's like the minority is affecting the majority.

Have y'all seen Ya-Ya on that RadioShack commercial?


Lol...i didnt see anyone post it, so i'd thought i'd bring it up to show that some of them are doing something...lol

I remember reading this post earlier today and the commercial for the ugly Sprint Samsung phone from Radio Shack came on. My back was turned to the TV, but when she started speaking, I recognized that voice.

YUCK. :o

I recognized the voice before the face when the Ya-ya ad was on too! At least SOMEONE is making money after being on the show.

I saw it also and it's been driving me crazy b/c I couldn't remember her name! I'm really bad with names. I knew that she was on ANTM, but couldn't remember anything else. Thanks epchick!

Ok, if you all thought Ya-Ya on the radioshack commercial was bad, then don't see the new Antonio Banderas movie. It doesn't look very interesting anyways (it about dancing) but there was this one girl that always looked real familiar but i couldn't place her, until YESTERDAY. Y'all wanna know who it is (even though i pretty much gave away the answer)??

Y-YA!!!!!!

Oh well....Brooke went home.

:(

I'm not upset at all that Nnenna went home...I agree with some of the judges when they were saying that she's seemed kinda boring lately.

Right now, it's between Joanie and Danielle in my book.

Yeah, I think you're right. As much as I'm ehhh on Jade, I have to say I really liked her picture and she could *possibly* sneak into the top 2 or 3. When she's on, she's good, but when she misses, eww.

Nnenna was my family's and mine's favorite.

Now, I want either Danielle or Joanie to win.

Was she good? Awful? Unremarkable? I rather liked YaYa; very entertaining young lady.

I watched the first three seasons, religiously (much to my boyfriend's disgust), but have not seen or have any desire to see this year's episodes. It just isn't the same without Janice.

Pssst! This is the thread from cycle 5. The thread for cycle 6 is here . Just so it all stays together :)