Something you may want to consider, instead of saying you are a loser, is that you may not fit into greek life at the campus you are on... I know that had I decided to go to any of the other schools I got into I would probably not have joined greek life. I really am not sure I would have fit in as easily as I did at the campus I was on... Sororities are very different from campus to campus, and greek life in general differs from campus to campus... You may not be happy with the way things are currently working out, but I am a believer that things happen for a reason. You may not have gotten into one of the groups now, but maybe it will let you become involved in something else or some other group... Keeping an open mind and a positive attitude can make all the difference...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nongreekloser
I rushed twice, in spring and fall. got cut from every house. Got cut from a COB the spring after I first rushed. Wasn't allowed to colonize in a new house. Something is obviously wrong with me. [/QUOTE


There are many reasons why things don't work out. I had a rush experience where I never pledged anything, and at my college, they didn't tell you about COB ( or Informal as it was called back then,). Despite that( and the awful feeling I had for weeks), I went on to be VERY active in other organizations on my campus including the student newspaper, drama, a student faith group, several honor societies, and was eventually tapped into the top leadership honor societies on my campus!! I was also privileged to be asked by the college president to serve on one of the campus major councils as a senior. I sometimes think that if I had been Greek at the time, I would never have had those opportunities.

Please, please, please, consider looking at other activities on your campus. It may take you time to find your niche.

I just PM'd you, if you would like to talk more.

Ok, I did get a bid and I got it on my first try. For those who do not know my story...I dropped out after 8 months for many reasons. However, as I started the next semester I totally regretted it. Trojangirl, I kind of went your route. I got super involved in campus and did some super cool things. Like being a part of one organization that got to decide on which famous people could come on campus to perform or guest speak. Of course, after I dropped out I still remained in my service fraternity and dedicated tons of time to it (we were rechartering). Even after all of that, those experiences fell waaaaaay short of the sorority experience. Nothing can substitute it at all. If I had the chance I would've transferred (since I wanted to transfer in the first place!) to give it a second try. HOWEVER, if you keep on getting cut time after time, especially at a non-competitive school, I think it is time to look within yourselves to see what the hell is wrong (either with you, or with the sororities - which is unlikely).

Perhaps it is your depressive personality?

It took me rushing THREE times to get my bid (very long story I shall not go into here). The point is, I didn't give up. I found my place and I have contributed with my heart and soul over my 25 years of membership.

Adopt a new attitude AND it will show.

Greek Life isn't for everyone.

That doesn't make someone less of a person for not being offered a bid. If you've gone through recruitment multiple times at your university and have not been offered a bid through informal or formal recruitment, then get involved with another activity. Find your niche, and be happy. Who knows? From there Greek life may become part of your life! But if the conventional means aren't bearing fruit after multiple tries, put it on hold for a while and move onto something else! You deserve to find a group where you are a good fit and where you are happy!

Sororities vary from chapter to chapter and campus to campus. For whatever reason you haven't gotten the bid you wanted, accept at some point you're a better fit in another organization and join one of the 100s of clubs and societies at your school. There's no sense in repeatedly attempting to join any kind of organization where you don't fit.

Good luck! And if I'm to get flamed for advising people to make themselves happy in lieu of beating a dead horse, then flame away!

And I will re-emphasize another point...If you did not maximize your options during FR, or if you have the opportunity to COB after FR, and you do not do so because you do not want to be in certain chapters...

DO NOT COME HERE LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY!

Its that heartbreaking time of the semester again . ... so we should review this thread and ponder why so many perfect people get rejected from all sororities.

Ugh...this thread only serves to feed a fire that really isn't relevant here. NOBODY will know why they weren't accepted, and while yes it is heartbreaking, no group discusses outside of their own four walls why they vote the way they do...so asking this question isn't even relevant.

Very interesting thread...

I hate to bring up the weight issue again, but I had a thought for why overweight girls are more likely to be cut than "ugly" girls.

There seems to be a perception in society that "fat people" are only fat because they are lazy.

Therefore, girls may cut girls who are overweight because subconsciously, they feel like the have no motivation and are "lazy couch potatoes" - therefore would not be good sisters.

I know that for SoCal rush (especially USC and UCLA) image is a huge part for many of the sororities. A lot of it is that in Southern California, there are so many beautiful girls, who also have amazing personalities to boot.

Eh, I doubt anyone is really thinking in terms of lazy. I think it's purely superficial. I also think that it's much easier to tell, objectively, whether someone is overweight or obese than it is to tell if someone is ugly. "Ugly" is subjective.

I hate to even be saying this, but you know, we should be honest that at some schools, looks matter. A lot.

Word.

I hate that we pretend again and again that looks don't matter during rush. They do. How much varies from campus to campus, chapter to chapter. On the whole, I don't think any of us are as shallow as we are made out to be in the mainstream media. There are no houses with scales under the floors, and I would be surprised if there are MANY (I'm sure there are a few) houses where they hold up your picture during membership selection meetings and somebody screams, "NO FATTIES!" -- at least in my chapter, we NEVER commented on somebody's appearance during MSM. I imagine this is the case for almost every house across the nation, even the ones with the really beautiful girls. I think the beauty standards are just sort of implicit rather than the blatant stuff we're accused of.

But come on, you guys. I think all of you know that there is at least one house on your campus, probably more, where looks matter. Quite possibly they matter to varying degrees at EVERY house. How reprehensible this is matters on the degree, because god knows that looks matter in LIFE, not just rush.

Way to go, sugar and spice--you said what I've been thinking for a long time! Looks do matter, and we all need to admit it. Now, granted, not every chapter looks for beauty queens, but I know for a fact that if a rushee had come into my chapter's house looking like she hadn't showered or brushed her hair or washed her clothes in months, I would most likely not want her to be in my sorority. That's just how it is.

I don't think that's quite what she was talking about.......

I agree that it's chapter to chapter (school to school really) but then I also come from very laid back chapters who were more on the "jock" side of life than the "beauty queen" side.

Let me put it this way. If a girl looks like she doesn't make some sort of an effort, even if she isn't ugly per se, I would probably skip over her. Maybe my example was a little extreme.

bumping for the hell of it

In one specific case in my sorority:

Because you're a trash talking drama queen. If you trash the sororities in rush, I'm going to immediately immagine all the drama you'll tryo to stir up at Homecoming activities, your pledge meetings, etc.... Thank you, mf. Move along.

OK, I just discovered today why I might not have gotten a bid to a local sorority on my campus in 1985. I wondered for a long time but wind up finding my "home" with an interest group which formed to go national and we became DPhiE. We did not have a panhellenci them to give us recruitment tips. We did not visit all the groups and then widdle down the list. We visited everyone and then the cut down. We did not cut down.

I wore their colors to an open recruitment party. I remember sitting on the floor of the multi-purpose room during float building for homecoming. Now their colors weren't anything unusual but they were NOT the school colors and I don't look great in one of the colors so maybe, I was seen in a bad light. No one mentioned it and 20 years later, I see the potential risks involved.

Why I am telling you this 20 years later? I HAD NO IDEA at the time that this was not a good idea. Thanks to greekchat, many potential new members can eliminate tons of heartache by following the advice of others before them. I was sad. I moved on and found my home but always wondered "what did I do wrong?"

Soapbox retracted!

Denise

March

the Customer is always right...
 

The reason having cute members matters to houses is a simple matter of survival economics. Rushees are the customers and they want to join houses where the girls look cute -- where and look like they have boys flocking to their doorstep, where the girls look fun and popular.

I was in a house that was considered the "fat sorority" (despite being anything but fat!). We got snubbed by a few fraternities and therefore snubbed by dozens of rushees every year who dropped out if they were left rushing just us. I would cry annually at pref because of how mean the rushees were to me and my chapter. I've been on the other side --it wasn't about who I wanted in my chapter. Looks mattered because the rushees wanted good looks!

I didnt make it into one because I thought I was so cool, I really DON'T konw how to act around other girls, and i let others influence my decision.
See, I went into rush feeling cocky: I was a former model, I was going to do Miss USA 2006 ( my state's division) and cos I was dating a guy in the top fraternity on my campus. I was basically the biggest brat, doing everything they tell you not to do during rush. From complaining, to accidently ignoring a sister, badmouthing a certain sorority, talking about frats, etc. I was AWFUL! So awful, that I made a name for myself among the other sororites and with the VP of recritment for Panhell. But nobody did anything to stop me, unfortunately. Now, the sisters weren't saints, either, but I should have known better. But I didnt bc I was used to being catered to by my bf and the frats.
Out of 20 sororities only 2 wanted me: the 2nd most unpopular sorority and the TOP sorority. So you'd think I would have joined the Top one, right?
Well, during rush I kept hearing the rho chis talk about how catty the top sorority was, and how all the frats wanted to hang out with them ONLY bc they were "fast." so i did everything i could to get cut but they wouldnt cut me. infact, they were so sweet to me, but everyone ( other pnms-how the hell would they know, right?) insisted it was all just an act... so i finally told the top sorority i didnt want to be part of their sorority.
I really wanted to join the bottom house, bc I loved them, they were the only ones I wasnt a brat to and who i loved seeing every round. But my bf wasnt happy about that, so I ended up turining down their bid and staying independant...very stupid move! Later, I rushed in spring w/ a new positive attitude but the damage was done and even the bottom sororities didn't want me.
Luckily I have kind of a happy ending. The President of the sorority I was so awful to ( the "top" one) and I became friendly, and she wants me to join next year. or so she says. and i got to know some of the other sisters and they are sooo sweet and they want me to rush, too. and i just might, because for a sorority to forgive me like that must mean I am meant to be their sister. Besides, all those girls who said those awful things about them were probably just jealous, anyway...

I know this is an old post, but there's a certain chapter PR term for this phenomenon--the use of "face girls." Basically, it means that you pick the girls who look attractive (yes, it can happen with larger sized women, too, so please don't jump on me for bringing this up), but there's some girls who are going to "look good" to PNMs and some who aren't.

It's a huge societal problem, IMHO. We're constantly told by the rest of society that skinny or athletic chicas are more successful, less lazy, and all around better people (even though in a lot of cases this isn't true), so for a lot of folks, it's just an automatic association even thought it's not PC at all. I try to think of the "face girl" concept as putting girls who look confident, well-dressed, well-made-up, and fun in pictures for the website and other chapter things. I think there are a lot of girls out there who don't see that in the same way, and that's sad.

As for my cuts, I got cut HARD. I had done all I could--contacted my area panhellenic in Seattle for recs (they didn't really know what I was talking about or was asking for), kept a 4.0 before rushing, and tried my darnedest to show up to each party looking my best and being my friendliest. I didn't, however, know much about the sorority system and rushed at a Texas school with only a couple recs. I accidentally talked about how my day was going overall (hey, I'm not gonna lie--I liked everyone and I didn't think it was a faux pas to compliment those chapters elsewhere), I was probably a little too open with what I said, and heck, I'm not exactly drop-dead gorgeous, despite my efforts to the contrary (mother nature played a big part in re-frizzing my hair after all that work).

There was, however, a computer issue with me being invited back to KD's party one day, and I accepted, but it somehow didn't make my schedule the next day. I let my rho chi know, and I guess it was fate that she was a KD and I got COB'ed on Bid Day as the "computer glitch bid." Don't get discouraged by the process and there'll probably be a chapter you'll really love later on. Learn from that attempt and go on.

or the other half could learn to like the girl... from reading the posts on GC, i thought in situations when some sisters do not like a pnm, you were suppossed to trust your sisters and cut her, ? or is that just for some chapters? because if that was the case, then every girl who gets heavily rushed is liked by the sorority, isn't it? i'm seriously curious bc maybe i'm at 50/50 right now with the sorority i mentioned.

Membership selection is ritualistic and private and not to be discussed. You're delving into that territory. We can't talk about how many sisters are needed to issue a PNM a bid or anything like that.

But theoretically, why should a house take a girl that only 50% of the house when there's another girl for that spot that 99% of the house likes? Why would you want to join a house where only 1/2 the people liked you?

how is it delving if the question was meant to be in general and not directed at a particular chapter? well, i doubt you'd know what THIS chapter's rituals are anyway. actually, i just asked bc i wanted to make sure i didnt misunderstand what jocelyn (?) said. but MAYBE you're right and MAYBE i shouldn't have asked on a public site. my mistake. i did not know.
why would i want to join where half only likes me? because honestly i could care less what the other half thinks as long as i have my half that does. what are the odds of you chillin with the whole house anyway? and unless you really suck, i doubt the whole sorority would hate you for long.
and why take a girl that only half the sorority likes but not one that 99% likes..well maybe you didnt have to chose either or,maybe you didn't meet quota or one of the girls are "freebies" and you're in the position to take both girls.
or maybe withthe girl that 50%of the sisters liked, maybe the sisters that liked her didnt just like her but felt really strongly about her. I dont know bc im not in a sorority and I dont want to "delve into their territory" or even speculate bc i'll most likely end up wrong, anyway.
im agree that this is a unique situation. i thought it sounded sketchy, AT FIRST ( i don't anymore..I just wanted to hear everyone else's opinion before I decided whether i wanted to rush or not. Yes! I do care what other people think! I'm not narcissistic enough to think I'm always right. I wanted to hear from girls more versed on this issue than I am.

Please allow me to take this one:

We had a woman going through Recruitment whose brother was one of our favorite guys (most sororities have one or two of these), really a super guy. But his sister...! A lot of us could see potential, a diamond in the rough - long, black hair, beautiful blue eyes, nice skin and the worst potty mouth we had ever rushed! When she dropped the F bomb in front of ten, count 'em, ten Alumnae, 3/4 of the chapter was done with her.

With lots of campaigning, the odds became 50-50. With a bit more pleading, she got a Pref invitation, and with a slow Recruitment year, she got a bid to make quota.

Yippee! Hooray! Right? Wrong.

Her attitude - even with a LOT of guidance - became even more obnoxious, "I got in, you can't make me go!" Sisters who had previously been for her were horrified, then hostile. Our suite became very close to an armed camp, meetings became bitchfests. She started to turn the rest of New Members against the sisters. It was a nightmare. Many sisters just avoided the suite completely. There were four sisters assigned to stay with her, to take that leadership ability and turn it into a plus. Try to get that potty out of her mouth. Try to make her into the type of woman that was our chapter's style. It took over two months, but she destroyed us. Thank heavens, she depledged prior to initiation, along with two other malcontents.

We held initiation, and tried to make nice until the end of the year. By the beginning of the next term, our chapter, which was then second largest on campus (darn DZ's were always the largest!), came back with less than half of the sisters. Honestly, they disappeared in the middle of the night - just moved out, cancelled their membership or wrote a check for the rest of the year, and were never seen again. If you saw one on campus, she'd turn the other way. The stress of this ONE unhappy New Member was too much for most to handle!

To this day, whenever asked, I have said that, if a large number of sisters dislike someone - not on the fence, but dislike - DROP HER!!!

I've obviously had to leave parts out, but the bottom line is this:
No one woman is worth the destruction of your chapter. NO ONE!

Thats not the stress of one depledging new member, that was the drama caused by the rest of the chapter's bitchfests.

Thats just silly. Grown women driving each other away because they disagree over something.

James, if you haven't been there, you have no idea.

-------

HC, I know exactly what you mean. The couple times that I can remember us taking girls because a few people REALLY liked them and a lot of sisters didn't......... never turned out well. They were the pledges that missed all sorts of events, that we tried to help and accomodate them, make an effort to get to know them, do nice things for them, then they turned into the sisters that never showed and when they did it was mainly for the social stuff.

I'd say that if that many sisters dislike someone, chances are very very strong that they won't work out. Trust the gut of your sisterhood!

Isn't that the point of social sororities? Doing social stuff? lol

Not really. Showing up for just the mixers and stuff that involved boys is just a very small portion of being in a sorority. Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, i'm dead tired and about to go to bed.

I have ZERO respect for people who only show up for the "fun" stuff and don't help put any work into it or other things that keep the sorority going (i.e. attend meetings, serve on a committee of some sort, help out in various other ways).

James, you doubt very much if you've ever tried to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. You can only defend or hide bad actions so many times.

To the credit of our President at the times, the bitchfests were kept few and far between at meetings. She had every chance in the book to straighten up, but just wouldn't.

And while I agree with kddani, there's a LOT more to social sororities than showing up at a mixer! There's the planning of the mixers, Greek Week, Homecoming, making floats, keeping the Suite & self clean and pretty, learning to live together in harmony, and much, much more.

thanks for your insightful reply, HC.... i could see a chapter giving a bid to a pnm that only half the chapter liked but if the pnm still made no attempts to fit in after rush then why even give the girl a bid just to make quota? isn't it painfully obvious that she's just after the letters? an "unpopular" PNM and a crappy pledge are two TOTALLY different things.

I don't know if the full amount of pain came through, yes, an "unpopular" PNM who works at becoming a good sister and a New Member/Pledge who doesn't are two entirely different entities.

This woman had it all - including a father who was District Attorney at the time, and running for Mayor! While the sisters who were against her from the beginning didn't make it easy for her, she could have tried harder herself. AND, those of us who saw that she had her guard up but could be awesome should have given her less chances to change her attitude, or advised her to quit earlier. It was a big lesson for all of us!

gem_star17, it really sounds like you want us to reassure you that you have a good chance at overcoming your previous bad behavior towards the sororities at your school. I don't know that you're going to get the answer that you're looking for.

No, i wanted to know how often it was for a sorority to still want a girl after all that. like i said, at first i thought it was a joke that theyd still want me. i'm friendly with the president, now, remember? she reassured me that they were over it. i gave the 50-50 number as a conservative estimate. judging from the posts others put up it seemed like, if you were a bad pnm, you're chances were up, so initially i was suspicious.
In hindsight, i realized that it was dumb to be suspicious, as I'm sure these girls would have better things to do than try to recruit a girl they didn't want. I said that repeatedly..
now, i' am genuinely interested in hearing why a sorority would STILL want a girl that was a bratty pnm. Or better yet, if there were other cases. That is all. Really, if wanted reassurance, i have better sources than you. I'd just go to the president or the girls in that sorority.
i feel so bad. i feel like im being catty towards you and i dont like it. it's not who i am. so lets just drop it and please free to not reply to my future posts. i'd rather hear from GCers who are actually answering my questions (i.e GCers like HC) rather than GCers who are trying to guess if i have some ulterior motive.
All I want is an honest answer. That is what I am looking for and I'll find it if people will give me an honest answer, instead of insinuating i have some sort of agenda.


EDIT: if you only read my second post, i guess it could be taken for me wanting to know my chances. however, if you read my 1st post, i clearly said I had a happy ending. oh well, good job to HC for knowing what i meant!

Well after rush, and after you've bid her, and she is a crappy pledge you're kind of stuck, unless she does something REALLY heinous.

And sometimes it has nothing to do with having to fill quota, sometimes it has to do with some of the sisters saying "well I know her and she's faboo" and the others not liking her, or another PNM whom no one knows anything about or has gotten enough of a read on her to tell what she'll be like. In other words, better the devil you know.

I went to a huge school in the South, the University of Florida, that had a very large and competitive Greek system. I was a sophomore when I rushed.

And I was socially awkward back then. I may not have been in high school anymore, where I was the class nerd. I may have gotten treatment for PCOS and lost weight and gotten nicer clothes. I may have had more friends and belonged to various activities, including A Phi O. But one does not acquire perfect social skills from one day to the next. I think this may have been the main reason. My social skills are much better now. I make friends more easily and do interact well at parties and gatherings.

I had a few funny mishaps at Rush. I took a napkin accidentally from one house with my drink- but I was told on time it was against policy. I tripped on the steps of another house. I spitted water accidentally in a third one. One of the Rho Chis told me that she spilled a glass of water once when she rushed- she did not get invited to that house either.

I did not have any recommendations. I knew people in a couple houses, but not super closely. And I did not get to see them during Rush because the chapters were so big.

My folks were not too convinced about it either. So it may have been for the best that it did not happen back then. But now I am on my own and can afford to belong to a sorority.

I still enjoyed going through Rush and getting to meet all the 16 sororities that were in my school back then.

Agreed.

And we're not talking about a grey area, we're talking about quite a few people not liking a PNM. It's not that they have no opinion of her (which is not uncommon), they have a negative opinion of her..............

I'm not trying to doubt or contradict you but my brain = :confused: about this.

How could it be a homicide and an OD. And no wonder that girl is screwed up, she has a dead boyfriend :(