Interesting indeed. Messages were much more blatant back then than any one could get away with today.

Kanye at it again
 

I found this online and was not sure if the issue was addressed but I found this small piece about Kanye West and his crazy mouth . . . this can't possibly be helping things as far as the self esteem of young girls and the warped mentality of our young men

http://72.14.209.104/search?hl=en&q=...video+girls%22

Kanye needs his jaw wired shut...again

I thought the same thing.

I agree that it will always be an issue. I briefly looked at that website and they talked about black women with straight hair and how that obsession originated.

I don't agree with the idea that educated folk are a source of blame. I think we are all in it equally. For example, I can say that there are some things that have been ingrained in me during my childhood and throughout my life that I still struggle with (e.g., hair texture, acceptable weight, and the spectrum of black social statuses). I think that it would be naive of anyone to say that it is something that people should just 'get over'. As long as prejudice (internal and external) exists, it will always be an issue.

Although it is not just about skin color, it is about how we, as blacks in general, struggle to fit into white society (people who historically do not care about nor accept us into their worlds).

Quick disclaimer: I know this thread went out a month ago, but I needed to rant and FINALLY had the sense to do a search before I started a new topic:).

I have a non-traditional problem with my skin color and I've been having it(literally) since the day I was born. My parents and sister are significantly darker than I am, so no one ever believes I'm really a part of my family. The day I was born, my mother's white coworker came to the hospital and the staff assumed she was my grandmother as a way of explaining my color despite my parents'. I've heard everything from "Your momma must've been creepin'" to "I didn't know you were adopted!" But's that's just scratching the surface. My real problem is that I have been complimented for being soooo pretty and soooo smart for as long as I can remember--because I'm light. That may not seem like a problem, but it's the start of one. This makes, NOT WHITE PEOPLE OR EVEN BROTHERS hate on me, but my beautifully dark-skinned counterparts.

Darker skinned women often celebrate themselves in a rebuttal to the madness, and rightfully so! This world is full of "Black is beautiful" type slogans. However, when I jump on the bandwagon and agree with such statements, nearly every darker woman has verbally slapped me in the face. I've been told numerous times that I already get praise for being light because looking closer to white is what's celebrated and I should be satisfied with that. Now, I'm trying to steal the thunder away from the REAL nubian queens and I'm just being "greedy" and an "attention hog." So what am I supposed to do?? Many of my darker skinned sisters accuse me of trying to "pass" because of the way that I speak and dress and that I need to "act more black." :mad: But that many more tell me I'm not one of them and "need to go back to the rest of the white people."

I don't think this is a non-traditional skin color issue. Given that Black folks, particularly here in America, possess the broadest range of skin tones, those on either end of the spectrum have their issues to deal with.

I am dark brown and my cousin with whom I grew up with and is like a sister to me is very light (mixed race), therefore between us, we experienced the whole gamut of color issues. Mine were not worse than hers and hers were not more horrible than mine; we just had to deal.

I have never a victim of the skin color issue, and I hope it never happens. I do know of those who have though, but not many. Growing up, I got isht from blacks because of other things. Could this be a geographical thing? Or, a generational thing? I see dark and light skinned people my age getting along with each other pretty well. But I know many people in my grandparents generation that quite colorstruck, even blatantly at times.

Yes, the Color Complex is still a issue in the Black community although it is often ignored. I was a victim of the complex and I think that it has made me into the person I am now.

I am doing summer research about the Color Complex and college student's perceptions of it. I am doing it from both a historical and sociological view. I am examining how slavery had a lot to do with the discrimination within the Black community. I am excited about doing the research.

Please share your results. I know many of us would be interested in your conclusions.

I guess the only way to respond is...well I dunno, I'd say take it as it's meant. On the one hand, you clearly have a lot of compassion for women who have been discriminated against because of their dark skin, and that's commendable.

How are you expressing this to them would be my main question. A lot of times expressions of sympathy can come across as condescending (ever had a white person tell you that they're really "down"- you know what I mean). It could be that is how it comes across sometimes, but you seem pretty clear in your meaning so I wonder.

Regardless of how you express yourself, it is NEVER ok for someone to disrespect you. If they get too high and mighty then tell them to back off. Being sympathetic is one thing- being a doormat is another.

I get what you mean. I don't know; what I say is often taken a different way than I meant it (more sarcastically or meanly--I'm just one of those people :rolleyes:). But when someone says, "Nubian queens are beautiful" and I say "Yes, we are!" women just stare at me like a white girl said it! They say I'm trying to get praise for looking white AND being black, which couldn't be further from the truth. I don't look white IMO and I'm not mixed, just very light. I don't know why and I can't control it. So why tell me I'm stuck up and think I'm better than everyone else? Since when do you know what I think about myself over a physical trait that I can't control? And why expect me to be flattered over compliments which are really just the opposite? You know, I worked my butt off, going to school full-time, working full-time, and STILL got straight As. So when someone tells me I "look intelligent" because I "look white" and ignores everything else I just did....:mad: I spent an entire childhood never getting to interact with people of my own color except for my family or church members. So when I came to a black college, I was excited to learn my history, to be with my own people. Then I got here and, for 4 years, have dealt with being told I don't belong. It's not everyone, but it's enough.

As far as the other thing about the skin color of sorority members...I'll say this. I'm one of the lightest girls in my class. I was asked whether I'm an AKA probably once a week after I got to college and, once people started to know me, maybe once every couple months. Several times, people have admitted that my skin was the only clue they had to go on and still made the assumption. I can't express HOW FREQUENT AND IN HOW MANY WAYS THIS ASSUMPTION IS MADE ABOUT ME. I mean, COME ON, a freshman walked up to me on campus last year and expressed interest to me!!! :eek: I have mad respect for the org, but why does A have to equal B? Can I just be me? Is that okay with everybody? :D

The puzzling part is, it's not just the way I look--several GCers have PMed me asking if I'm an AKA (always either members of other orgs or a nonmember). So if it's possible that women who look white "talk white"...since people have made it up in their minds that there's a way to "look like an AKA" is there a way to "talk/type" like one? Because this stereotype is ridiculous...if I were darker, I bet I wouldn't be getting corned by freshmen. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Don't get it twisted. No one is PMing you to inquire about your membership in my Sorority because of your grammer usage. They are probably PMing you because you often swerve out of your lane and speak on matters that you probably shouldn't comment on, hence "the way to 'talk/type like one." You do the math.

^^
Word.

Well that answers my questions on how the poster might be coming across right there. Oh dear.

[/QUOTE]...if I were darker, I bet I wouldn't be getting corned by freshmen. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

:eek: :confused: You do know AKA's come in all colors.:cool:

Ha! Soror RD holding it down as usual.
I'm out. LOL.
SC

If you'd like to PM me with examples of commenting on things that I shouldn't, I'd like to see them, b/c I don't think I've done that intentionally or even unintentionally often enough to merit people asking. I never meant to disrespect anyone. I was highlighting how dumb inferences like that are. Like I said, I have mad respect for the org, but I'm not a part of it and don't see why anyone would think I am, including the implication that I would be mistaken for an AKA because I comment on things that I shouldn't. I'm not being glib, I'm totally for real on this--I'm not saying what you said is not true, I'm saying I don't see it and if you or anyone else thinks I've overstepped, please let me know in what way. I never meant to offend anyone, AKA or otherwise.

Yes, I know that. That was sarcasm, making light of how stupid and untrue these stereotypes are. I thought the :rolleyes: would make it plain that I wasn't being serious.

prettybreak1908--one of my classmates did a study on Black college students and how they feel about skin color. The majority of men were more likely to date a light sister than a darker one and the majority of women didn't have a preference. There were other factors measured; I can tell you more about it if you're interested.

Ditto! it is still an issue in my extended family--especially among the older folks

I would love to see your research too

I've seen studies like this before (I'll have to google some sources).

As painful as it is to admit, these stereotypes are still with us today.

You must have me mistaken with someone else to assume that I have time to go through your old posts and send you examples of what you say on GC. Last time I checked, YOU posted that people PM YOU asking about your membership in my Sorority. Thus, then, and therefore, OBVIOUSLY you must be saying things that give people that impression, correct?

As I said before, you do the math.

I didn't ask for an in-depth research of everything I've ever said...is that seriously how you took it? :confused: I sincerely asked you to let me know what you see that I might be doing to offend you or anyone else so that I can change it and stop giving off the wrong impression unintentionally. If you can't/won't do that, then what was the point of putting me on front street about it? Just to take a stab at me with no constructive intent? :confused: I've never known you to do that, but hey, first time for everything. Doesn't change my respect for you, so oh well.

Wheverever you were going with that, I obviously missed the bus, so I say back to our regularly scheduled thread we go...

OK, maybe you are not reading my posts well, so I'll break it down.

1. You know that I am an AKA, right? How? Because a) it's has been in my signature or b) because you have read posts with me referencing such.

2. If I didn't have a signature stating my affiliation, then you would have what to go off of? MY WORDS.

3. Hence, people get impressions from what they read when there is no additional supporting evidence. Just like you may have never taken notice of AKA being in my signature, you seem to be pretty aware of my posts to have noticed at one point or another that I stated being a member of AKA or may have spoken in a matter-of-fact fashion about AKA or greek life in general.

4. Therefore, those persons that contacted you about being a member of my Sorority must have gotten the impression from the way you speak, be it about an affiliation or in a matter-of-fact tone.

You are trying to make this situation about me and you, but it's not. I don't have to try to put you on blast. You brought it up. Did you really expect me (or any of my other Sorors, for that matter) to not say something about it? I am stating to you why some PEOPLE would assume that you are a member of my Sorority. I don't have to document nor fish through all 976 of your posts to pinpoint specific instances. How about you contact those persons who PMed you and ask THEM WHAT gave THEM the impression that you were an AKA and let me know.

RD:

LOL, to be quite honest with you (and you can cyber-slap me for this, I won't fight you) I never noticed you were an AKA until your first comment in my direction in this thread. I thought you were in another sorority b/c I misread your screename. If it was in your sig, I truly never noticed. ":rolleyes:" on me.

Did I expect you to say something? Yes, which is why I ended the message with a question to prompt further discussion. If you felt it was a stupid question, then okay, ":rolleyes:" on me again. But I never wanted you to go through however many posts I have to pinpoint things. That's really misconstruing things and blowing it out of proportion. All I meant was if you stated I was "swerving out of my lane," then there must be something I said that you were thinking of when you brought that up, so let me know what it was so I can make sure not to do that again. But thanks for the convo, I appreciate the last post, it was very clear and gave me some things to think about.

Back to the thread. :)

You know what I actually like how you replied to this whole matter. I really think you tried to be humble and sometimes don't realize how things can be percieved. Just take note on what you say, people should not have to point it out to you.

I agree back to the thread!

CG:

As I previously stated, you CONTINUE to make this discussion about ME and you. I don't know how else to simplify it for you. One LAST time, if OTHERS (NOT RD) are construing that you are a member of the Sorority, it must be based on something you said. Since a person cannot see you through a messageboard and make assumptions about your affiliation based on appearance (as is the purpose of the thread), one (NOT RD) can only make assumptions based on what you say on this messageboard. Since RD is NOT one the persons that has made the assumption about you, RD is NOT the one to pinpoint what you have said. As previously stated, you need to address with THE PERSONS WHO HAVE PMed YOU as to why they made the assumption you were a member of my Sorority. RD can draw her own conclusions and RD will address them when they need to be addressed.

I hope that you get what I am saying now. If not, *shrug* I can't break it down any further. Take it for what it's worth. I agree with everything Soror Wonderful has stated. Remain humble and be mindful.

Proceed with the previously scheduled discussion.

This, we can agree on. And Wonderful: thanks. ;)

Forgive me for the thread crash, but just wanted to mention something that I have always found to be bizarre...

As you ladies have documented so thoroughly in this thread, there are people (black and white) who have a preference for lighter skinned black people, for whatever reason. (I think its craziness myself, but anyhow...)

And yet, white people subject themselves to dangerous levels of sun exposure to try to tan and make themselves darker. For those people who have wised up to the health risks of excessive sun exposure, there are a variety of self-tanners to fake the appearance of darker skin. We're expected to avoid being pale at all costs.

I'm pale - about as pale as a person can get (comes from being a redhead). I can't even begin to count the number of times some "well-meaning" individual has told me to get a tan, or to try one of those new self-tanning products on the market, etc. I've had guys (thinking that they are giving me a "compliment") tell me that I'm attractive for someone "so pale" or that I "could be attractive if I got a tan." No thanks. I'm content with myself the way that I am, and that's good enough for me.

I've just always found it to be strange and confusing why so many members of the white race make every effort to be darker, and yet discriminate so unfairly against people who naturally have darker skin. Its a crazy world we live in.

(Personally, I think that we should appreciate the beauty in all of us...and not just physical beauty, but beauty in character also. Too much emphasis these days is put on external appearance. :( )

You are not crashing, we welcome everyone whith respectful comments:)

True!

Hi Susan. You aren't crashing.

I think that the White people are able to discriminate against persons with naturally darker skin because despite tanning and all of their efforts to appear darker (temporarily), THEY ARE STILL WHITE at the end of the day. Even with a slightly sunkissed tone, they still do not lose the privileges that are afforded to them because of their race. They still have to option to NOT tan and remain just as pale as they want to be. While persons of darker skin tones never have that option.

Not sure if you get what I'm saying, but it's all a matter that goes to the discussion of White privilege. I'm sure we've discussed that a time or two here on GC.

I do understand what you're saying, as far as even the deepest tanned white person still being white at the end of the day goes.

I still think its hypocritical to hear someone who puts a lot of effort into making him/herself darker make ignorant comments about people who naturally have darker skin. (Its offensive no matter what the shade of the person who said it - there's just an added layer of irony that goes with it when that person is obsessed with trying to be darker themself.) Perhaps the reasons you cited above are why they don't see the irony/hypocrisy of their own actions?

Hmmn, now that I think about it, this whole conversation makes me think of a story that was relayed to me recently. My grandmother passed away on Easter, and at her funeral last week people were sharing lots of stories. One of her sisters mentioned that they tried as hard as possible to cover themselves and avoid getting tan while working the fields. (My grandmother was raised on a farm and worked the fields, tended the animals, etc.) Apparently back then, being tan was a dead giveaway that you came from a poorer family. I wonder when the perception changed that being tan was a "bad" thing to being a highly desired thing?

(Sorry, I know that last paragraph is straying a little from the topic at hand - all the talk about tanning reminded me of that story, and of course my grandmother has been on my mind lately with her recent passing.)

When most people no longer had to work in the fields, rich or poor. Then tanness became a sign of being healthy and physically fit.

In the early 20th century being tan started to mean that you were more well off (at least in Europe) and no one would confuse your golden tan from the French Riviera as a farmer's tan. By the '60s tan was in and pale was out.

See: Wiki on Sun tanning :D

Funny this topic came up. I was having a discussion about this very phenomenon with a white co-worker the other day. The more things change, the more they remain the same. :cool:

So, how come there are several cultures worldwide that avoid having exceptionally darkened skin? Of course most of sub-Saharan African cultures are quite dark and could never absolutely lighten their complexion--except in one instance that still occurs. Albinism at the Tyrosine locus.

Ooooh, that was deep! *snaps*

This is reminding me of the latest episode of ER with the teen white girls who tanned themselves into raisins. They looked like Beyonce did in Dreamgirls while Jamie was singing and she did that photoshoot as a darker, African-esque woman...intriguing on her, not so much for 2 teenagers in the emergency room! :eek: Is that what made you think of this, Susan? I notice that when notable things happen on TV, I end up seeing related posts soon after.:cool:

Exactly Soror! I keep posting in these threads that this phenomena, which is a fascination with more European features, is not limited to AA cultures. For example, there was a front page LA Times article this past summer/fall about the fact that Asian women are now one of the greatest consumers of fade cream and a substantial number of them apparently carry parasols when walking in the sun to avoid tanning b/c paler is better. I had a friend a few years ago that explained to me that the more European features were also deemed as better in the Latin cultures. Thus, she explained to me, when Latina newscasters were first on the news on their stations, they were women with the paler skin and the blond hair - not the darker skin with dark hair. I don't think it's really limited to AAs.

And incidentally, I don't recall who posted that men tend to prefer lighter women. I think that it all depends on the, strangely enough, the complexion of the man. I am a dark skinned woman and typically attract light skinned men. Many of these men, when I see pics or know of their old girlfriends, they are dark skinned women like me. Therefore, many men that are dark, I see with a light woman and many men that are light, I see with a dark woman. I think people just like to try something a little different from themselves to spice it up a little. LOL.

It's all good. LOL.

SC

That was me :cool:

Hey guys after reading this thread i felt compelled to make my first post:)

I just want say that I am a light (bright) skinned female with green eyes and what has bothered me the most throught the years is not white people who dont like me b/c im black but other darker skinned females (not all of course but im referring to the rude ones i have come across) Have you ever had a situation where you walk into a group full of white people and you can see them give you this look..like they dont want you there. That has happened to me plenty of times with darker females. It hurts because i feel like we are SUPPOSED to be on the same team..yet you are dividing us. In school i even had this one girl say ''well if your light skinned that means your not black youre white' WTF! So i said then that means Malcolm X was some random white guy helping our cause b/c following that logic he is not black either. What doesnt help light skinned sistas are the few who ARE stuck-up, think they are better than everyone, so they perpetuate the stereotype and make it harder for people like myself.(dont get me wrong i used to be stuck up when i was a young child b/c of my eyes but my mom who is mixed but considers herself full black..put an end to that quickly...and for that i am grateful:p ). I still kind of have issues w/ feeling completly comfortable with my skin tone ....I feel like the oddball when i am with my friends (most if not all are darker skinned) but i am starting to get over that.
On another note while i do have a preference for darker men, if i see a cute light skinned brotha i like im not going to hesitate just because he's light (i might if he's white b/c like some one posted a while ago i dont want my kids to be see through) so I think there is a diff. between having a preference and purposely not dating a particular color

Thats just my 2cents

This worldwide phenomenon results from the economic domination leading to cultural domination of the European in the last several centuries. This behavior is more pronounced in formerly colonized areas (India, US, South Africa for example).

What everyone needs to keep in mind is that the European was not always culturally or economically dominant.