Hm... yea, yelling at brick walls would probably make me look crazy :p

Funny thing is, in the middle of me typing that last post, he sent me a PM begging me to respond to his post.

He begs for attention, says that I don't know that getting stabbed is bad because I haven't experienced it, asks for recruitment help in another thread because their chapter has 3 members, and then wonders why people tell him not to haze.

damn.

AS i said, i'm not one to say that doing laundry, or pushups, or being covered with eggs serves a higher purpose, because it doesn't........at least not to my knowledge?

I am just stating that it is an assumption on your part that all hazing is bad.
That is all. I am not saying anything about learning simply by doing. I am saying that unless you have experienced something like hazing first hand, you are putting a certain amount of trust in someone else, in that everything they are telling you is true and accurate.

As far as not knowing a pledges past, and therefor they could be mentally unstable......we are a small enough organization that we get to know the potentials long before even the rush party.

In reference to your concern for pushing pledges away because of how we treat them, i agree.

In pledging it is a constant push-pull system

you pull them in, and then you push them away, and then you pull them in again..thats just how it happens

If a major issue has happened in a pledges life, i'm aware of it as soon as it happens, and i will deal with it appropriately.

That is what most people don't understand. Yes, there might be hazing in certain organizations, but as soon as a brother(or eve a pledge) is going through a tough time, EVERY MEMBER is right there with them, ready to help in ANY way possible. I do take care of my pledges, and I do take care of my brothers.

My fraternity isn't nearly as concerned with quantity as we are quality...
I would rather have 3 pledges make it through..and them be the ones that worked their asses of and put there heart and soul into the process..and their trust into the brotherhood than i would 15 people who half assed an easier less demanding process

The whole point is you make it so hard for them, and you only have 3 people come through, in order to do... what?

To go to meetings, to participate in philanthropies and fundraisers, and then to... haze the next class.

There's just no point. And there's no point in arguing.

I give up.

We make it hard because we want the best of the best....we have had so many people attempt and fail, and we like that.

We get as many people to pledge as we can, and the process weeds them out. Thats how it has been for many many years and that is how it will remain... regardless off what people want to think

Perhaps it is an elitist point of view on my part, but we are about so much more than that..we have a brotherly bond, our alumni still stop by, we are a family, we watch each others back, we have a small army behind us on ANYTHING we need done, all of my brothers, even the ones that i have yet to meet, would do anything for me at the drop of a hat.

your right there is no point in arguing and i apologize for even trying to defend hazing, because in todays day and age, greeks as they were once known, are a dying breed..and it took me to find this forum to realize it.


P.S.-please don't take my posts personally, regardless of what post or topic it is. I am a Political-Science major, and there is nothing more in this world I love more than a good argument.

I was a poli sci major, too. I think I've just learned to back down sometimes. Because otherwise, my friends get mad at me for arguing my point til I'm blue in the face :rolleyes:

^^ find it funny that I typed that and the smiley face that I wanted to use is blue :p

haha..that is kind off ironic that you typed a blue face after that, and unfortunately, I have yet to learn that level of self control, I enjoy a good argument wayyy too much..sometimes i get a bit carried away though haha

I just wanted to say that is REALLY PRETTY. On the real.

I know, in looking for a group to try and pledge with, I don't feel I want to be hazed.

I think when I get into college I am kind of an adult while young, not stupid.

Ar 6' 3' and 185 pounds I do not feel good about someone beating on me or making me do things that I do not care for!

I wonder if greek life is like this why should I care about joining?

The five previous posts were deleted. Please try and keep conversation at least marginally on-topic. Thanks.

Some really good stuff in here, I see both sides of the argument.

You are correct when you say that hazing began before WWII but incorect in its meaning. Back even before slavery, there was a reason why Africans stayed so close knit to those who looked like them, not only because they could partially understand each other because when they were chained together with the other 114 different tribes and clans of people, they fought and looked out for each other. This is what hazing is modeled after, it creates a bond between you and your lb or ls when you protect them from any danger or harm as they will always return the favor. Africans were chained with people they may or may not have known but they had to to work together in order to survive.

^^^ Pssst. That post is 8 years old. I don't think Melchisedic, who never actually registered as a user, is around to read it.

ORLY?

What's the word for that thing when you give a new meaning to something after the fact?

I see you changing my quote :p

I'm currently on line now as an underground pledge in my school (since any form of pledging here is illegal). And I'm coming up against hazing which I think is being taken extremely out of hand. My heart and soul are in this but I don't think my body can take much more abuse, and we haven't even made it to the pledge class yet! I don't want to drop but I don't want to end up in the hospital either....I honestly don't know what to do.

Your organization probably has a hazing prevention hotline. I'd go that route first.

Really though, by continuing to cover this up, you're risking your academic career and even potential criminal liability.

Your call though. Good luck.

if they're underground, it's not their org.

Depends on what he meant by underground. You can be underground with your school, but a bona fide member of your organization.

I know, but I just got the vibe that his school doesn't permit any sort of pledge activities for anybody ever - like Greek orgs as a whole are not just unrecognized but you can get kicked out for being in them. YMMV.

Or it is possible the school believes in the Insta-cross school of thought. essentially you get a bid and are initiated right away.

yeah my school thinks in that way. i understand working for you letters but i dont understand mindless violence...

I put it this way--why would any organization want members with so little self-respect that they would tolerate being hazed? Why would anyone have so little self-respect as to want to join an organization that betrayed its own "brothers" by hazing? To me, once it's in that perspective, the right answers become clear.

This, a thousand times. This group whose informational I went to put hazing to the PNMs this way: "nobody who will haze you is worthy of being called your brother, and nobody who will allow themselves to be hazed is worthy of being a brother." That's my personal policy in a nutshell.

My personal opinion on new member education is that it should do three things:

1. Teach new members about the history and traditions of your organization, their expectations as a member and the like.

2. Help new members build a connection and bond with their fellow new members and brothers of their organization.

3. Help new members acclimate to and become involved in what's going on with their university. This is especially important with incoming Freshmen.

If more groups took the approach of "what can we do to help our new members become at home with their organization and new community" instead of "what can we do to test these guys and see how badly they want to be members" I think you'd see a much improved reputation of Greek life in general.